lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4
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@used2berx i don't believe there's anything stopping you updating emulationstation to latest from within 4.3(?).
all i would say is we had users saying that 4.2 "bricked performance" compared to 4.1, and i imagine we'll get the same when 4.5 comes out :) i think with things like retropie there's too many factors (changing settings, etc) between one install and the next, and a lack of real benchmarking tools (working on that..) to get concrete data.
retropie versions themselves typically don't have that kind of influence over system performance. hopefully you can figure out a good solution, though.
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@dankcushions said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx i don't believe there's anything stopping you updating emulationstation to latest from within 4.3(?).
all i would say is we had users saying that 4.2 "bricked performance" compared to 4.1, and i imagine we'll get the same when 4.5 comes out :) i think with things like retropie there's too many factors (changing settings, etc) between one install and the next, and a lack of real benchmarking tools (working on that..) to get concrete data.
retropie versions themselves typically don't have that kind of influence over system performance. hopefully you can figure out a good solution, though.
I have two images now. One is from a long time ago that I have been using while doing all of my NES/FDS testing and work. This has 4.2 on it.
The other image is a 4.4 image I started putting together less than a month ago.
I have 100% of NES/FDS games running at full speed without audio crackle and have hand picked the correct emulators to make this happen on an individual rom basis, on the build with 4.2. There are 4 or 5 exceptions to this rule, as the games would play but I could not get 100% speed performance no matter which emulator I used. These games are remarked in my compatibility spreadsheet. I tested games just about 20 minutes ago on the NES on the current 4.4 image I've been working on and some of the games I had tested as working 100% are now super laggy and have audio stutter. Granted, the games are "intense" hacks like Super Mario All-Stars, but these used to work absolutely fine on my 4.2 build.
This, along with all of the issues I'm running into trying to get a libretro core SNES emulator to play games at speed that worked fine in 4.2, I'm thinking that there is a real issue here.
I will go through the process of creating a 4.3 image today and see where that testing brings me.
I am exceptionally thorough with my testing and documentation. If I find that 4.3 is good where 4.4 is not, then I stand 100% behind my findings. What you guys choose to do with that information when the time comes is up to you.
I don't mean any disrespect to anybody here, and I know that the Pi Zero is the red-headed step-child that nobody really cares about, but it may be the case that you're better off just dropping support entirely for Pi Zero users beyond 4.3 if stretch is going to put a huge lag on games that used to work on earlier versions of the RP releases.
More to follow....
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@used2berx
i don't think it's worth getting into an esoteric discussion about stock 4.2 versus your previous 4.3 install. there's too many factors. i think this is the only fair test:- install stock image 4.4
- run a game X on emulator Y, when launching choose 'launch verbose logging' via runcommand.
- leave the game doing it's demo for 5 minutes (time this)
- exit the game
- open /dev/shm/runcommand.log and look copy the performance statistics at the end. you can calculated the percentage of dropped frames, here.
repeat for 4.3, and 4.2 if you wish, (using same game, same emulator), and compare results of 5).
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To clear confusion, I never had a 4.3 install. I'm currently setting up my first 4.3 install.
The original image that I messed up beyond repair way back in may or june of last year was 4.1, which I don't even have anymore. I was using 4.2 since it came out until around 3 weeks ago with this new build. So I went from 4.2 to 4.4.
The difference in performance that I'm talking about is from 4.2 to 4.4.
I don't see why this is so unbelievable since so many other things unintentionally broke after the upgrade to Stretch.
After I set up the 4.3 image, I will have an image of 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4. I will follow your instructions then and give you the results. I don't think that 4.4 is going to be very impressive on the Pi Zero though.
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
I don't see why this is so unbelievable since so many other things unintentionally broke after the upgrade to Stretch.
Which things broke ?
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@mitu Installation scripts, as far as I know. I know that zerojay's expirimental installer was completely borked, and the mame plus port that gamez_fan had started still will not install on 4.4 to this day.
EDITED TO ADD: The atari800 installer that future_child had made needed to be fixed to work. Even after this, the game "Beamrider" will not work on 4.4. He's looking into the issue to find out why but hasn't posted anything about it yet. This used to work with the same emu no problem in older versions of RP.
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@used2berx Which installation scripts ? The rest of things you mentioned are not part of RetroPie.
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@mitu said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx Which installation scripts ? The rest of things you mentioned are not part of RetroPie.
I added more info after you posted.
PS... Not really appreciating whoever is downvoting my posts here. I'm trying to help the community about a valid concern I have regarding the Pi Zero. Thanks.
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@mitu @dankcushions
Fresh install of RP 4.3 and there is zero lag while running the hack "Super Mario All-Stars" in lr-nestopia. This is the same result that I got while running it during original testing on a 4.2 build. It is completely unplayable on the 4.4 build with massive slowdown and audio stutter. All 3 are tested with the exact same Pi Zero, with 3 separate SD cards.I will begin testing according to dank's specifications.
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@used2berx Make sure to note which RetroArch and Nestopia versions are ok in 4.2.
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@mitu said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx Make sure to note which RetroArch and Nestopia versions are ok in 4.2.
Sure thing. How do I do this again? :)
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@used2berx Just use the RGUI (Select + X) and make note of the versions shown at the bottom of the screen. RA should be either 1.7.1 or 1.6.9.
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@mitu said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx Just use the RGUI (Select + X) and make note of the versions shown at the bottom of the screen. RA should be either 1.7.1 or 1.6.9.
Will do. This is going to take a while. I need to test Super Mario All Stars on all 3 units for 5 minutes according to dank. I'm also going to try to see if I can duplicate the much quicker and higher performing experience in a libretro emulator for "The 7th Saga" on 4.3 and run the 5 minute tests on each of them. Once I have the logs copied for each test, I will go back in and get these numbers as well. I'm going to keep copies of the entire logfiles in each case just so I don't miss something you guys need and have to re-test them again.
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This is interesting... This is regarding the 4.3 install.
I just looked in the runcommand.log file after running All-Stars for 5 minutes in lr-nestopia and I saw this:
[ERROR] Couldn't find any audio driver named "alsa_thread"
[INFO] Available audio drivers are:
[INFO] alsa
[INFO] alsathread
[INFO] tinyalsa
[INFO] sdl2
[INFO] null
[WARN] Going to default to first audio driver...I literally just went into the global options in the configuration menus a few minutes before this test and selected "alsathread" for the audio driver for all emulators. Looks like this selects "alsa_thread" when it is expecting "alsathread"?
RetroArch version from the file:
[INFO] RetroArch 1.7.3 (Git b2ceb50)(Selext+X) information, RA/Emu versions:
1.7.3 - Nestopia 1.49-WIP 5ecea44As for what @dankcushions was looking for... I believe this is it?
[INFO] Threaded video stats: Frames pushed: 25170, Frames dropped: 1.
Let me know if you wanted something else here or if that is the line you're looking for and I'll get the rest of the info for the other tests to compare this to.
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
RetroArch version from the file:
[INFO] RetroArch 1.7.3 (Git b2ceb50)
(Selext+X) information, RA/Emu versions:
1.7.3 - Nestopia 1.49-WIP 5ecea44These are the same versions included in 4.4, did you update the image through the RetroPie-Setup script ? You should post the whole
runcommand.logfile, not just the statistics line, there might be other information there that could give a hint. -
@mitu said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
RetroArch version from the file:
[INFO] RetroArch 1.7.3 (Git b2ceb50)
(Selext+X) information, RA/Emu versions:
1.7.3 - Nestopia 1.49-WIP 5ecea44These are the same versions included in 4.4, did you update the image through the RetroPie-Setup script ? You should post the whole
runcommand.logfile, not just the statistics line, there might be other information there that could give a hint.Yes, actually. I did. After installing RP 4.3, I updated the install script. Then I ran "update all packages", but I declined when it asked about updating the OS and kernel itself. My thought was that I was just updating all of the emulators to the current versions?
At any rate, the screen I get for the RetroArch options is very different on 4.3 than it is for 4.4. In 4.3 we get the old screen with green bars. On my 4.4 image it has the soft blue RetroArch displayed that looks a lot like the PS3 options screen.
I have the 4.3 and 4.4 runcommand.log for All-Stars. Give me a minute to figure out how to post them here so you can see the differences.
BTW... the alsa_thread isn't even mentioned in the 4.4 log at all?
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Results on Super Mario All-Stars / lr-nestopia. Full runcommand.log files:
RetroPie 4.2: https://pastebin.com/Em3wPdUR
1.6.0 - Nestopia 1.48-WIP af3bd1a
NOTES: Absolutely zero audio stutter / slowdown. (With or without verbose logging taking place).RetroPie 4.3: https://pastebin.com/eJf5Gb4h
1.7.3 - Nestopia 1.49-WIP 5ecea44 (Updated stuff right after installing 4.3)
NOTES: Minor audio stutter when game starts up, but then it is fine. (Only with verbose logging. No stutter otherwise).RetroPie 4.4: https://pastebin.com/DR9BNzbP
1.7.1 - Nestopia 1.49-WIP 5ecea44 (Must have never updated this. Could this be the problem???)
NOTES: Audio stutter / slowdown plagues the game from start to finish and the games are virtually unplayable (With or without verbose logging taking place). -
@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
At any rate, the screen I get for the RetroArch options is very different on 4.3 than it is for 4.4. In 4.3 we get the old screen with green bars. On my 4.4 image it has the soft blue RetroArch displayed that looks a lot like the PS3 options screen.
[...]That should not happen with a stock image, the menu should show the RGUI and not the XMB menu (the blue one). Have you applied any configurations to the 4.4 image ?
Regarding the 4.4 image versions - it seems you did not update the image, you should update it - including the OS - then re-test. I'm not expecting it will be different, but you'll have the same base for testing - identical version on both systems - so we could easily pinpoint where the issue might occur.
Right now, it looks similar to this, which has been reported a few times with the 4.4 version, but I don't think you're using the 3.5' audio jack on your Pi Zero.
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@mitu said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
At any rate, the screen I get for the RetroArch options is very different on 4.3 than it is for 4.4. In 4.3 we get the old screen with green bars. On my 4.4 image it has the soft blue RetroArch displayed that looks a lot like the PS3 options screen.
[...]That should not happen with a stock image, the menu should show the RGUI and not the XMB menu (the blue one). Have you applied any configurations to the 4.4 image ?
I'm going to say no because I don't even understand what you're asking me here. How would I go about doing this? If I know what you're talking about then I should be able to tell you if I did or not. (At first I thought this was part of the SNES Mini skin, actually, so I switched to the NES Mini skin and it was still blue and there was no change in the speed/quality of the game).
Regarding the 4.4 image versions - it seems you did not update the image, you should update it - including the OS - then re-test. I'm not expecting it will be different, but you'll have the same base for testing - identical version on both systems - so we could easily pinpoint where the issue might occur.
I never ran the update for 4.4 I guess. I'll update it in a minute and let you know if there is any change. I'll re-run the test on All-Stars when I do. (Should I update just like I did before????? Update all, but then decline to do the OS/Kernel updates? I see you said to update the OS, but then you say "to have the same base to test". If I choose yes to OS/Kernel updates here than it will not be the same as my 4.3 image, will it?).
Right now, it looks similar to this, which has been reported a few times with the 4.4 version, but I don't think you're using the 3.5' audio jack on your Pi Zero.
No. That's not at all the issue I'm having. It's hard-core audio sputtering/stuttering that happens when you're running a game/emulator that isn't going at full speed (either because of hardware and/or software limitations). The game is also notably slower, and even when playing the 1st Super Mario Bros in this hacked rom the game runs extremely slow and has the audio stutter.
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
I'm going to say no because I don't even understand what you're asking me here. How would I go about doing this? If I know what you're talking about then I should be able to tell you if I did or not. (At first I thought this was part of the SNES Mini skin, actually, so I switched to the NES Mini skin and it was still blue and there was no change in the speed/quality of the game).
I mean if you copied over any of the files in the
configsfolder. The stock image, as distributed by the RetroPie project, specifically disables the XMB menu driver and enables the RGUI (the green checkered menu). You should copy the/opt/retropie/configs/all/retroarch.cfg.rp-distover/opt/retropie/configs/all/retroarch.cfg. Check that the file has the linemenu_driver = rguiand NOT
menu_driver = xmbAs for the update, you could first update the packages only (no OS update) and re-test, but first you should disable the XMB menu driver for RetroArch.
I see you said to update the OS, but then you say "to have the same base to test". If I choose yes to OS/Kernel updates here than it will not be the same as my 4.3 image, will it?).
The 4.3 and 4.4 images are based on different Raspbian releases, so the OS will always be different. When I say "same base tot test" I mean you'll have the same RetroArch and Nestopia versions in both systems - so this helps to narrow down which update (OS/package/emulator/config ?) triggers the slowdown you're experiencing.
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