X-Arcade Right side button issue

Clyde · 25 Sept 2018, 12:20

@chuckyp said in X-Arcade Right side button issue:

Well technically speaking, as long as the same standard is kept throughout you can do either. But in sovereign120’s picture above it appears there are 2 different connection styles being used at the same time.

Right, and since the buttons are not at their original places in the stick, they could be (re-)connected in any way.

And some don’t “daisychain” the commons at all but it saves a ton of wire if you do.

I have both, actually. My buttons have single wires on both ports, because my zero delay encoders came with dual wires out-of-the-box. The common wiring of of their LEDs is daisy-chained, though.

EDIT: I may be mistaken, but I don’t think you can put a wire from a common post to a NO/NC post. I believe you need to keep it consistent. But... I’ve been wrong at least once before.

I wonder how that should be possible, since the buttons can't "know" how the others are connected. Thus, if it doesn't matter how one button is connected, it neither should overall. But I've been wrong before, too, so … ;)

Lurker · 26 Sept 2018, 18:34

EDIT: I may be mistaken, but I don’t think you can put a wire from a common post to a NO/NC post. I believe you need to keep it consistent. But... I’ve been wrong at least once before.

I wonder how that should be possible, since the buttons can't "know" how the others are connected. Thus, if it doesn't matter how one button is connected, it neither should overall. But I've been wrong before, too, so … ;)

Flipping the wires on one button should not be an issue IF each button is wired on its own. IE one wire to NO and one wire to common. If you daisy chain the commons AND flip the wires on one button then you create a false signal of that button being pressed because the daisy chain is connecting the NO pin to com along with the com pin. I had to draw it out to make sure my logic was correct.

It is not the buttons that "know" anything it is the system as a whole that is responding to what it sees.

Looking at this image I would write out where does each strand of the daisy chain we see here go? If one leg of that chains connects to an NO pin of the next button but then the next leg of the chain connects down to the NO (or active, positive, or what have you) pin of the board then that would cause an issue.

As a guide line, though you can daisy the common, I tend to only use it for LEDs and not the button action.

Let me see if I can diagram what I'm talking about;

1 button... no problem

2 buttons even if you flip everything on one button 100% your are technically okay.

BUT accidentally daisy chain the common to the NO pin and you got issues.

Clyde · 26 Sept 2018, 21:40

@lurker I may misinterpret your pictures, but I think that the third image below the line "2 buttons even …" pictures the setup I meant: Two buttons, B1 with NO connected to the current, and COM connected to common, while B2 with NO connected to common, and COM connected to the current. edit: That should work to my understanding.

Your last image however (the one with the red "on") seems to show both pins connected to common. That wouldn't work, of course.

Did I understand your pictures right?

Lurker · 27 Sept 2018, 17:31

@Clyde You have it right.

The last image is a case of miss-wiring. In that example our theoretical person wires button 1 and then takes the next leg of the common daisy chain and wires it to the NO on the button. Then thinking "this is the NO wire" connects it to the "active" pin on the controller and wires com to com. This creates an issue effect of when ever any other button is pressed B2 would be active as well.

I mentioned all this for two reasons.

being that the image of the buttons in this case shows a daisy chain and a mix up there may be the source of the issue.
From a paradigm perspective, when we talk about button connections, even though we look at the buttons it is really the connections to the circuit board /encoder that we are trouble shooting. It kind of goes to answering why flipping the wires on a button would mater when you think about it as a simple switch it shouldn't mater.

Clyde · 27 Sept 2018, 19:36

@lurker Thanks for the clarification.

So, the only issues with inconsistant NO/CO wiring are a higher potential of miswiring, and maybe aesthetics. :)

I just want to underline this because the question came up when @ChuckyP had doubts if you can connect a common wire to a NO or NC port at all.

sovereign120 · 9 Oct 2018, 14:35

@grant2258 I used my tester and this is what I got...
In the first picture I AM NOT pressing the side button... In the second picture I AM pressing the side button and hearing the continuous high pitched beep of the tester.

I tried this with identical results to other buttons on the board.

sovereign120 · 9 Oct 2018, 14:49

@chuckyp From all the pictures of the Tankstick's wiring I've seen in other pictures around the web, it's all in line. I wonder if it's an emulation issue. The hard part is finding someone with who uses the Tankstick for pinball so I can pick their brain. :)

Lurker · 9 Oct 2018, 22:15

I am sorry that I can't be more help in with this issue, but it is still baffling to me that the NO pin on the buttons is daisy chained.

As we discussed before if it is done consistently flipping the pins does not mater. I am willing to bet if you traced the orange daisy chain it will lead to a ground pin on a circuit board somewhere.

I looked up another tank stick wiring image and sure enough I guess they just like tossing convention out the window and doing their own thing as it was wired the same.

You have shown the button works, so the next question is where is the signal going. Trace the brown wire on the com pin of that button.

If they flipped everything consistently then that wire should go to a slot designated for that pin. I did a little more digging and it should run to the middle pin of J2 on the board.

I found this image, which may not match exactly your unit as it is for a tank without a track ball and your unit has the track ball and two side buttons but hey it is something.

Lurker · 9 Oct 2018, 22:30

Another fun question.

Are you moving around the wires in between tests?

I ask because of the two pictures. The first picture clearly has a daisy chained orange wire on the NO pin and brown wire on the com pin. But in the second picture the wires have been swapped with the near by top facing button. It looks like you swapped the buttons, which can be a good way to test the button and see if the issue follow to the new button.

It is not critical at the moment but I thought I would note it in case you suddenly find that the other button is now acting weird.

ChuckyP · 10 Oct 2018, 02:40

With that new angle it looks like they only split the button from the player 1 control panel to the side button for pinball.

So that shouldn’t cause any problems. Hope you get it sorted out.