[DOSBox] official thread

ecto

Thanks for your reply @nemo93 !
I will try and comment on the things you suggested:

I've never used the command utilities you've mentioned. I do everything by modifying one default .conf (which I never change) and one specific .conf per game (which I fiddle with in case of issue to add more memory, joystick, GUS, etc). Choppiness tends to occur mostly when you have too many cycles. To the point it could crash your Pi.

I tried to use the command line tool to find a nice cycle setting without haveing to reboot the games all the time (exit -> edit config -> restart game -> test). But as I said, it doesn't seem to have the desired effect. (?)

That's why you must never go with the max or auto values for cycles parameter. This explains the fixed value of 25.000 as said above.

That's a very good point! I have many conf files left over from my DosBox-SVN. There I have often used cycles = max or auto or somesuch. That would explain the occasional crashes when trying the games. I will check my conf files for leftovers.

[... ]and for some games you have to set the right machine setting :) It's not specific to Staging though.

Yeah about that... So far, I have only used svga_s3. Are there games, that require another machine setting? Sorry for my ignorance... ^^;

I'm using cycles = 30000 for Wing Commander 3 yet I haven't tested that game extensively. Regarding Magic Carpet 2 it was one of the first game to be optimized especially for Pentium processor (devs even included some Easter Eggs) and as such requires a solid configuration to run at full speed. You'll need to give a try to the kc/fps-pacing-1 branch to allow your Pi to go above the 35000 cycles mark (the limit on mine above which choppiness occurs). You could give a try to the Retropie script and just uncomment a line to get that version. I have currently set 90000 cycles for that game and it runs fullspeed.

I have the kc/fps-pacing-1 branch installed from the start as I thought that this might be the best for the Pi4. Are there downsides to that? Do you know if the cycle settings are interchangeable between the kc/fps-pacing-1 and the master branch? (Of course the higher cycles settings above 35000 are not interchangeable...)

My version of Magic Carpet 1 is running off the CD hence I can't change the extender. I'll be happy to add anything to the wiki if you provide me with the version (CD, GoG, etc) you're using and the .exe to patch.

I'm using the GOG version of MC2. It comes with a CD image, but I mounted it and copied over all files into the game directory. This way, no CD is needed (at least so far as I'm aware). By that I can easily exchange the dow4gw.exe that is provided with dos32a.exe. I probably did the same for MC1, as I don't need / mount the CD.

nemo93

@ecto you're welcome. I can't comment further on the command-line utilities at this stage. Yet I made extensive use of the CTRL-F11 / CTRL-F12 combo keys to do exactly that. Not very precise as on Pi you won't see on screen the current cycles count but it works.

About the machine setting, in fact you almost never require to go with svga_s3. The recommended setting is machine = vesa_nolfb. With it you won't have any flickering issue with Build Engine games (Duke3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, etc) as well as on other games. Actually only a handful of games do require the svga_s3 setting (mostly ones with FMV like 11th Hour or Ripper for instance but not required for Wing Commander's serie).
Note: I discovered that after patching Blood up to version 1.11 (latest patch available) then you must rely on machine = svga_paradise instead of vesa_nolfb to remove flickering. It's the only game to my knowledge which requires that value. It's only for patch/version 1.10 and 1.11.

The kc/fps-pacing-1 branch is the recommended one to use on pi4. Yet it's not polished and not officially supported. The only downside I'm aware is regarding sound/audio. Given the throttling implemented (the more cpu available the higher the cycles count) it might lead to a doppler effect or distortion in the sound when throttling occurs. Apart from that it's really fine and the added cycles allow for more games to run fullspeed on pi4.

Thanks about Magic Carpet. The first one comes with no CDDA/redbook audio and I recall you might face issues at some point (opening/closing map and/or casting spells perhaps) if game is not executed from CD. Magic Carpet 2 does have CDDA. You might not hear the score if you copy the data to your c: drive. Keep me honest. I'll add these anyway to the wiki as Bullfrog games have no issue with DOS32A.

Keep on testing and feel free to report back!

ecto

@nemo93 Thanks for your input. It's greatly appreciated!

I will set vesa_nolfb in the default dosbox.conf . Sorry to keep on bothering you but I have a couple of questions remaining ;)

What is the best setting for output is recommended? I have it on texturepp.
Should I leave the texture_renderer on auto?

Do you have any experience with the following games that I can't get to run without sound crackeling:

Pro Pinball Timeshock!: I tested cycles = fixed 30000 .. 150000 but it's mostly laggy gameplay and always crackeling sound.
Fallout: I found it with cycles = fixed 60000 to be perfectly playable but the sound keeps crackling at some points.

I'm so happy to have Dosbox working so great, as I grew up with various MS-DOS PCs (from 286 to 468 to several Pentiums) and played a good share of games on them and to relive that now is simply amazing.

PS I have to look into the CDDA of Magic Carpet 2 O_o I completely missed that!

edit
I got a bit further with Timeshock! I'm using a slightly lower detail setting in-game and 120000 cycles and I disabled CDDA. With that only minor audio stuttering remain. I can even almost use 800x600 resolution.
Does CDDA need so much processing power? The tracks are in .ogg format so a bit of decoding is certainly needed. I'm almost inclined to transcode to .wav, as the soundtrack is definitely worth it...

nemo93

@ecto no problem :) I just saw this morning that MT32 is almost there on Staging. I guess it won't be long before it will be fully integrated. Now to your questions.

What is the best setting for output is recommended? I have it on texturepp.
=> I'm relying on output = texturenb and that's good enough for me. The pixel perfect might be more suitable for desktop environments.
Should I leave the texture_renderer on auto?
=> when it comes to DOS stuff I don't like to leave settings on auto :D I'm using texture_renderer = opengles2 which is the backend currently supported on Pi's. At some point we might move to opengl instead!

I have no experience whatsoever with Pro Pinball Timeshock! (you mean Pro-Pinball 2 : TimeShock! right?) I'm afraid as it's not part of my testbed. I'll give it a try when I have a chance though. As a wild guess your issue might be due to a too high resolution to handle for the Pi. Perhaps you could try enforcing a VGA resolution of 320x200 by setting machine = vgaonly in the .conf . If the game supports such mode of course.

Fallout sound is crackling and runs slow even going with cycles = 100000. So it migth be due to the resolution as well. I need to give a try to machine = vgaonly to see what's happening.
EDIT: Fallout doesn't support machine = vgaonly which leaves us only with the only option to have a faster CPU.

About the audio, please don't go with compressed formats like ogg, opus or mp3 as they will tax the CPU for decompression. It's best to stick with pure CD Audio on low-spec devices like the Pi. You just need to pass along a BIN/CUE pair to DOSBox and that will do. Don't bother to transcode anything!

mitu

@nemo93 said in [DOSbox] official thread:

At some point we might move to opengl instead!

opengl should be working on a PI4 in RetroPie, it supports OpenGL 2.1.

ExarKunIv

@ecto how hard was it to get the stage to work on the Pi. i remember from some if the past posts that it was not really messed with yet. just asking before i make the jump

nemo93

@mitu thanks you're correct. I ran into issue with that backend in the past and it's the reason why I disabled it from within my script. I need to retest given the many changes brought to Staging and to be sure.

ecto

@exarkuniv Well... it depends...

I have a custom dosbox starting script that starts Timidity++ or Munt, depending on the game. It also passes along specific game conf files to the dosbox executable.

All I really had to do there, was exchanging the SVN executable for the Staging one.

** BUT** what really changed, is the way Staging handles the cycles setting! I usually used cycles = max in SVN, which doesn't work for Staging at all.

So while my transition was quite smooth, it somehow wasn't (if you understand what I mean). Right now I'm exchanging all my GOG CD games (that usually rely on cue sheets with .ogg audio) with real images of the CD to keep the processing power for the audio decoding low. Somehow I have the feeling, that SVN handled that better.

All in all, I certainly won't go back. The pixel-perfect scaling alone is just too nice to miss! Also, as @nemo pointed out, MT32 is soon to be integrated into Staging, which is also very nice!

ecto

Ok... I just did some more experimenting and I must say I'm very confused!
Especially the "higher resolution" (640x480) games are not running well for me on Staging. D:
I tried again with SVN and those games run fluently (!) and without sound distortions/crackling. Here is a list of games I compared directly:

Crusader No Remorse
Wing Commander 3
Dungeon Keeper (in hi-res mode)
Timeshock
Syndicate Wars (in hi-res mode)

I'm a little stumped, but maybe I will stick with SVN at least for those games... I even tried an recompiled Staging without the rpi4 optimization, but it made no difference. Some games just won't run fluently... :(

nemo93

@ecto thanks again for your continuous feedback. Much appreciated! For both Bullfrog games, Dungeon Keeper and Syndicate Wars in hi-res I'm surprised. Back in the days those games required a bleeding-edge Pentium to run in SVGA/hi-res to the point I never saw them running properly in SVGA! With our Pi4 we can come close to a Pentium 75 so I never thought it would be possible to run those games in SVGA. The only games I'm able to run in such hi-res are Mechwarrior 2 and it's addon Mercenaries as well as Fade To Black (with 100000 cycles). For DK and SyndWar I'm having 80000 cycles and they do run fullspeed in VGA/lo-res mode. Both work fine with the DOS32a extender.

Crusader and Dungeon Keeper are 2 games which require machine = svga_s3 to run fine under Staging. I do have cycles = 60000
for Crusader and it runs quite nicely I'd say almost fullspeed here with Staging and those settings.

I really need to spend more time on the Wing Commander's serie. I've done only basic testing and I'm afraid I can't comment further.

Fortunately Retropie is super flexible and it's easy to pick a specific emulator per game :-) Feel free to switch back to SVN for the games that run best on another fork or SVN.

ecto

@nemo93 Yeah, I was a little surprised as well! I just converted my cdda games from ogg to wav or bin and hoped for a better result... Then I tried it with the installed svn and it's really running fluently. I had to change the cycles back to max in svn, but that was it.
Well, I will probably use svn for the 10 odd svga games and the rest with Staging, because the look of Staging is so much cleaner with pixelperfect output. Since Staging is still in very active development I'm confident, that it will get only better with time.
Do you think the developers are aware of this svga discrepancy?

themazingness

DOSBox Pure is available for public testing:
https://github.com/schellingb/dosbox-pure#download

nemo93

@ecto would you mind sharing your full conf please (game.conf + dosbox.conf + OS/kernel/Retropie)? I'll reproduce here as I can't see why such big differences between SVN and Staging. For now there's no evidence about an issue in the "svga code" but anything supporting this will be helpful.

I've tried Timeshock and it's running very smoothly even in higher resolution. Is your issue only about sound distortion or is it also about slow video emulation?

@themazingness thanks for that. Any feedback about Pure would be much appreciated as it looks an interesting fork.

ecto

@nemo93 said in [DOSbox] official thread:

@ecto would you mind sharing your full conf please (game.conf + dosbox.conf + OS/kernel/Retropie)? I'll reproduce here as I can't see why such big differences between SVN and Staging. For now there's no evidence about an issue in the "svga code" but anything supporting this will be helpful.

I'll do that in the next couple of days. I'll try to do it tonight, but you never know what else is left to do to prepare for Christmas ;)
With OS/Kernel config you mean /boot/config.txtright?

I've tried Timeshock and it's running very smoothly even in higher resolution. Is your issue only about sound distortion or is it also about slow video emulation?

It's usually a crackling and from time to time a distorted short bleeping/screeching. IIRC the emulation speed is ok, but it might skip "in sync" with the crackling.

Yesterday I tried "Dark Forces" and it was also crackling and the gameplay was skipping. It runs good on SVN...

nemo93

@ecto Don't worry I know what you mean regarding Christmas :D No rush, do what you can whenever you can! Yes if you could share the various DOSBox conf files you're using as well as the kernel version you're using (also are you using "full" or "fake" KMS driver) that would be great. Mention if you're using any overclock. If you don't know regarding kernel/KMS then please share your /boot/config.txt indeed.

The crackling for sure is coming from the specific Staging "pi4" branch we discussed above. Crackling shouldn't be heard if using the master branch and always setting less than 35000 cycles (which is the max cycles mark on both pi3B+ and pi4, above that value crackling should be heard and slowdowns will occur).

Dark Forces (another fantastic Star Wars game from that era that must not be forgotten about!!) is running very fine. I'm having General Midi + SB16 set up, machine = vesa_nolfb and 25000 cycles. Everything is running fullspeed and no sound issue to report. Don't forget to switch DOS4GW for the DOS32A extender.

If you have time I wonder if you could try my "default" conf file and give it another test with Dark Forces for instance.

xwons

Does anyone know how to try dosbox pure in retropie, now that it has been released?

ExarKunIv

@xwons for right now you have to compile it yourself

https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/28924/dosbox-in-retroarch-any-chance-we-can-have-this-on-the-pi

ecto

@nemo93 I found a little time today:

Here are my

DosBox SVN conf (to compare with stagings conf file)
DosBox Staging conf
Timeshock.conf
config.txt (using fkms for Amiberry and Daphne)
Kernel is Linux retropie 4.19.118-v7l+ #1311 SMP Mon Apr 27 14:26:42 BST 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux

I fiddled around a lot with everything (that's just how I work ;) So idk if the config.txt is all in order. But so far I haven't had any lockups or other problems with it.

And now I off, wrapping gifts ;)

Thanks for having a look!

retro81

Hi all, are we discussing here the new lr-dosbox-pure emulator, or should I use another thread?

quicksilver

Has anyone managed to get dosbox-x up and running on a pi 4? Very curious if it would be possible to run some windows games using it...