AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4

roslof

@tango said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

What makes moving from mame-lr to FBNeo worth the effort? What does it offer that makes it so much better?
If I'm reconfiguring in libretro, is that in the game itself? And if so, can I do that in mame-lr as well?

Oh, I'm not suggesting you download a whole new set. My set is highly mixed. In fact, on my Pi, I manually downloaded ROMs for the sets I recommended. I have 7-8 arcade emulators all installed. Also, current lr-fbneo and lr-mame (latest) actually use an extremely close ROMset. If you find the latest roms, they should work with both. ROMs that require CHDs are the exceptions, and I don't document those in my sheet.

So why lr-fbneo? Mostly performance for most ROMs. Better on lr-fbneo than most. Also, Neo-Geo games run perfectly with lr-fbneo. Control configuration is easy, and they are mostly pre-configured.

BONUS: You can have lr-fbneo AND lr-mame installed at the same time, as well as AdvanceMAME and other versions of lr-mame (2003, 2010, 2016, etc.) if you use the "Arcade" system. They all pull from ROMs in the RetroPie/roms/arcade folder. You may choose to mix and match your ROMs.

Again, you don't HAVE to download a fullset. Just download what you want when you want it. Also, the list I provided: It doesn't include gambling, pinball, mahjong, CHD games OR most of the different ROMsets, so it's rather optimized. About 3,400 games.

Lastly, notice the 3rd tab on my sheet. It contains data you could copy/paste into your configs/all/emulators.cfg file. It will auto-configure the ROM to the emulator.

Example: If you want to play a hypothetical game called "widget" because my sheet recommends lr-fbneo, you can find and download the lr-fbneo version of that ROM (or usually the latest lr-mame version of the ROM will work, too), copy it to your RetroPie/roms/arcade folder (.zip or .7z) and run it -- then set the emulator for that game as "lr-fbneo" and it should boot just fine.

BACKUP EVERYTHING BEFORE PROCEEDING though.
Hope this is helpful.

roslof

@Tango considering your bandwidth, note that I just checked my entire optimized collection. It's only ~10GB for everything (including SFIII chd files). Most ROMs are 7z compressed (except for those required for AdvanceMAME, lr-mame2003, lr-mame2003-plus and lr-mame2010, were ZIP files are required).

Also, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Many games run on multiple emulators just fine. I'd advise only downloading new ROMs as desired and map them to the appropriate emulator.

Tango

@roslof:

When you talk about a mixed set, upthread, someone commented that fbneo can't use the ROMs from mame-lr. But when you talk about the "Arcade" system (I have to look up that, I'm not familiar with it), you're talking about keeping them all in the same directory. That implies that I can use mame-lr ROMs with fbneo - am I missing something along the way?

At 10GB for a set (that is for fbneo, right?), I can wait until close to the end of our billing cycle and can probably fit that in. (At least now - back when we were on ViaSat, it'd be pretty tough!)

Have you found that fbneo is solid and good enough that it could handle all the games I'd otherwise do with Mame? Or, since you have a mixed setup, are you finding mame-lr is better for some systems than fbneo is?

roslof

@tango said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@roslof:

When you talk about a mixed set, upthread, someone commented that fbneo can't use the ROMs from mame-lr.

In most cases, modern lr-fbneo and lr-mame roms are compatible. The fbneo team documents this in their commits.

But when you talk about the "Arcade" system (I have to look up that, I'm not familiar with it), you're talking about keeping them all in the same directory.

Correct.

That implies that I can use mame-lr ROMs with fbneo - am I missing something along the way?

No, some of my ROMs are for fbneo. Some for mame (as outlined in my spreadsheet). Some work for multiple systems, but I note the one I recommend.

At 10GB for a set (that is for fbneo, right?)

No, it's a mixed set of ROMs supported by various emulators, but only one per game. I will only have, for instance, one zaxxon.7z file, but it will be mapped to a particular emulator (my recommendation is lr-mame for audio reasons) -- so there is only one Zaxxon ROM, and even though it works for fbneo, mame, etc., when I launch the game, it is currently using lr-mame.

Have you found that fbneo is solid and good enough that it could handle all the games I'd otherwise do with Mame? Or, since you have a mixed setup, are you finding mame-lr is better for some systems than fbneo is?

Check out my sheet (far right column). I try to use fbneo, unless another emulator runs a particular game better (but you don't always have to, since some games run great on multiple emulators). I'd start with whatever you already have and for whatever you don't have, download separately. If you're trying to do everything with one giant download, that really won't work for what I'm proposing. You can download one at a time or a few at a time... No reason to grab everything at once, unless you really want every game, every clone and don't care about whether or not it performs best with the emulator for that set.

Tango

@roslof

I'm trying to put this all together and I think I'm missing a few things.

What is the Arcade system? I tried searching but didn't find any good hits that explained it - the search terms are too general. From what you're saying, and that you have a config file for the ROMs, it sounds like it lets you put them all in one directory and then specify which emulator to use for the game. If so, that's quite different from what I see in Emulation Station, where I have to find a ROM under the emulator name.

I've looked through your spreadsheet and see how you have things classified and that you have fbneo as the emulator for most ROMs. I'm amazed anyone can manage a spreadsheet with so many ROMs listed in it!

You have a good point that I don't have to download a full set of ROMs at once. There are disadvantages. For instance, I found a full set of ROMs for mame-lr, but many games have 3-5 versions. (I think Qix, Tempest, Phoenix, and Dig Dug are some examples, if I remember correctly.) When I find that, I check and often find one or two versions don't work at all but find one that works well. For me, other than the bandwidth issue, it was far easier to download a full set of ROMs for mame-lr than to pick and choose. (Also, I like exploring all the games I've forgotten or never heard of.)

I also note you exclude some games, including the mahjong games. In the mame-lr set I have, it must have at least several dozen of them!

I see you have game titles and the ROM file name - but how would I check to be sure I'm using the ROM file you're talking about? For instance, for Phoenix, there are, if I remember, 6 or more ROM files and I'm sure the files get renamed at times or that different people who made the ROM files may have used the same name.

At this point are you the only one working on this list, or are others helping provide information for it?

roslof

@tango said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@roslof

I'm trying to put this all together and I think I'm missing a few things.

What is the Arcade system? I tried searching but didn't find any good hits that explained it - the search terms are too general. From what you're saying, and that you have a config file for the ROMs, it sounds like it lets you put them all in one directory and then specify which emulator to use for the game. If so, that's quite different from what I see in Emulation Station, where I have to find a ROM under the emulator name.

See here: https://retropie.org.uk/docs/MAME/

You can either use system-specific rom folders, or put everything into /roms/arcade. I do the latter. Depending on your theme, once you add valid roms (.zip or 7z) to the folder and restart EmulationStation, you should see a new "Arcade" system in the ES list.

I've looked through your spreadsheet and see how you have things classified and that you have fbneo as the emulator for most ROMs. I'm amazed anyone can manage a spreadsheet with so many ROMs listed in it!

Yet there it is. 😁

I also note you exclude some games, including the mahjong games. In the mame-lr set I have, it must have at least several dozen of them!

Literally hundreds of mahjong. I think I have a few stragglers in the list (like one for Neo-Geo, just because it's Neo-Geo and completes the set). Some subjectivity, but anybody could make their own set. The list is merely a tool.

I see you have game titles and the ROM file name - but how would I check to be sure I'm using the ROM file you're talking about? For instance, for Phoenix, there are, if I remember, 6 or more ROM files and I'm sure the files get renamed at times or that different people who made the ROM files may have used the same name.

Just ensure the romname in the sheet matches the .zip or .7z name. I did most of the hardwork and mostly leveraged parent roms, and not clones (some exceptions).

At this point are you the only one working on this list, or are others helping provide information for it?

All me, but I allow comments in the doc in case somebody finds a discrepancy. I get about 2-3 comments a year.

You could use the sheet as a guide. You may try to find specific roms for specific emulators and pop them into roms/arcade, then restart EmulationStation and see what you think. You don't have to mess with your other folders until you feel comfortable.

Tango

@roslof

Bottom line: What package is fbneo in?

More info: I have NeoGeo on my older arcade system (about 1-2 years old now), on a Pi 3B+. The new system was just installed with 4.7.1 and upgraded. I did apt search fbneo and got no hits at all on either system. I changed to apt search fb neo and got one hit on the newer system:

mednafen/oldstable 1.22.1+dfsg-2~deb10u1 armhf
multi-platform emulator, including NES, GB/A, Lynx, PC Engine

So different package name and MAME isn't mentioned at all. No hits with that same search on the older system. (I think I'm going to get a Pi4 and make a new system for the 3B+, since there are other things I can use 3B+ for that don't need the extra things a Pi4 has. When I do that, I'll have newer packages, of course, and I'll copy over all the ROMs and such on my current system to the new one.

(Also no useful hits for "final burn.")

On the older system, searching for "fb neo" give me hits for Latex packages - no emulators.

I'm thinking the thing to do, at this point, for ease of use, is to budget in the bandwidth, get a ROM pack for fbneo, and add it as an emulator. That'll get it up and running. Then I can take time to go through things and clean them up.

Did you personally test all the games in your spreadsheet? That's a LOT of work!

dankcushions

@tango you don't install retropie emulators via apt. it's installed by default with retropie - it's in the main packages section of the setup script, if you want to verify it's installed/reinstall it/update it. https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Updating-RetroPie/#updatinginstalling-individual-packages

Tango

@dankcushions said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@tango you don't install retropie emulators via apt. it's installed by default with retropie - it's in the main packages section of the setup script, if you want to verify it's installed/reinstall it/update it. https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Updating-RetroPie/#updatinginstalling-individual-packages

My older Pi (a 3B) uses an older OS image. It doesn't have fbneo, only NeoGeo and I had to add advmame to it. I finally remembered how to add advmame through RetroPie_Setup, but I still can't find a way to add fbneo to this system.

Actually, I was just going to add advmame to it and be done with it, but, as I said, nobody seems to know a thing about that anymore, so I'll be using fbneo there for most of the games mame-lr does. Since I'm putting it together for a relative, I'll be downloading a ROM collection - so he gets a lot more and can pick and choose. (Which explains some of my reasoning for other issues, too.)

dankcushions

@tango it's also added via retropie-setup - that's the only real method to add/update emulators to retropie. however we can't really support old versions (and it must be VERY old if it doesn't have lr-fbneo).

this sounds like a good point to download a fresh retropie image, as you don't really want to lumber your relative with an unsupportable old version, even if it was somehow possible to add lr-fbneo to it.

Tango

@dankcushions said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@tango it's also added via retropie-setup - that's the only real method to add/update emulators to retropie. however we can't really support old versions (and it must be VERY old if it doesn't have lr-fbneo).

How old is "old?" This particular setup was set up just before the pandemic, in January or February, 2020. At the time I downloaded the latest image and, after installing it, updated and upgraded it. I've looked in packages under Optional and Experimental. I did find advmame, 3 versions (including the binary one, which I did install). But I don't see fbneo in there.

Also, when I use apt search, I don't see any packages that contain "advmame" or "fbneo" in them. Are the emulators not included in the regular repository?

this sounds like a good point to download a fresh retropie image, as you don't really want to lumber your relative with an unsupportable old version, even if it was somehow possible to add lr-fbneo to it.

I decided that last night. My arcade system is on a Pi3B+ and I figured I'd like to do one on a Pi4. The problem is I want to keep my high scores and all the changes I've made to EmulationStation and any configuration changes to games. (For instance, in Vanguard, you can fire in 4 directions, so I changed the config so the buttons for each firing direction made sense in advmame - I want to keep things like that the same in a new system.)

My thought would be that if I use a new image and copy the /home/pi/Retropie directory recursively to the new image, that should preserve all the settings, configuration changes, and high scores to the new system. Please let me know if I'm wrong on that.

dankcushions

@tango said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@dankcushions said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@tango it's also added via retropie-setup - that's the only real method to add/update emulators to retropie. however we can't really support old versions (and it must be VERY old if it doesn't have lr-fbneo).

How old is "old?" This particular setup was set up just before the pandemic, in January or February, 2020. At the time I downloaded the latest image and, after installing it, updated and upgraded it. I've looked in packages under Optional and Experimental. I did find advmame, 3 versions (including the binary one, which I did install). But I don't see fbneo in there.

lr-fbneo has been part of retropie since 4.5 in 2019: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/releases/tag/4.5

it's in main packages, and is pre-installed in the pi 3 image.

Also, when I use apt search, I don't see any packages that contain "advmame" or "fbneo" in them. Are the emulators not included in the regular repository?

i can't stress enough that apt is nothing to do with emulators in retropie :) emulators are installed and updated via the retropie-setup script, not apt. even if they are there somewhere, apt wouldn't install to the same place as retropie, leverage retropie's config scripts, or add the systems to emulationstation, etc.

this sounds like a good point to download a fresh retropie image, as you don't really want to lumber your relative with an unsupportable old version, even if it was somehow possible to add lr-fbneo to it.

I decided that last night. My arcade system is on a Pi3B+ and I figured I'd like to do one on a Pi4. The problem is I want to keep my high scores and all the changes I've made to EmulationStation and any configuration changes to games. (For instance, in Vanguard, you can fire in 4 directions, so I changed the config so the buttons for each firing direction made sense in advmame - I want to keep things like that the same in a new system.)

My thought would be that if I use a new image and copy the /home/pi/Retropie directory recursively to the new image, that should preserve all the settings, configuration changes, and high scores to the new system. Please let me know if I'm wrong on that.

it wouldn't. for example, (most) config files are stored in /opt/retropie/configs/* etc. You can probably find some info on copying configs across images elsewhere on the forum, or perhaps someone will reply. personally i don't like to copy configs across from older versions - defaults change, emulators change, etc. I think you can end up carrying sub-optimal settings through to later versions. I like to start fresh, or pick and choose specific config files I know to be safe, but that's just me...

Tango

@dankcushions said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

lr-fbneo has been part of retropie since 4.5 in 2019: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/releases/tag/4.5

It wasn't showing up in my emulators, either in EmulationStation. I'm trying to remember from what I've read. Is ~/RetroPie/roms/fba the directory for fbneo ROMs? And am I right that the emulator won't show up on EmulationStation unless I have ROMs in the directory?

I have NeoGeo showing up, so I think I'm confusing the two.

i can't stress enough that apt is nothing to do with emulators in retropie :) emulators are installed and updated via the retropie-setup script, not apt. even if they are there somewhere, apt wouldn't install to the same place as retropie, leverage retropie's config scripts, or add the systems to emulationstation, etc.

Okay, that helps a LOT, since I've been bumbling around here, on and off, for a while, and never realized these packages were handled separately from apt.

How are they updated, then? Do I need to update them manually through the script or are they updated automatically?

My thought would be that if I use a new image and copy the /home/pi/Retropie directory recursively to the new image, that should preserve all the settings, configuration changes, and high scores to the new system. Please let me know if I'm wrong on that.

it wouldn't. for example, (most) config files are stored in /opt/retropie/configs/* etc. You can probably find some info on copying configs across images elsewhere on the forum, or perhaps someone will reply. personally i don't like to copy configs across from older versions - defaults change, emulators change, etc. I think you can end up carrying sub-optimal settings through to later versions. I like to start fresh, or pick and choose specific config files I know to be safe, but that's just me...

With Debian, I can easily do automatic updates so I don't have to go into a system and do admin work. I used to do that when I ran a business where all my software was on a Debian server. I know some people don't like auto-updates, but I never had a problem with things failing or crashing and that way I only had to deal with doing it manually when doing a dist upgrade.

For an arcade system, I'd like to keep that as automated as possible. I have had very little free time in the past decade and I'd rather automate whatever I can.

So how would I handle that with RetroPie, EmulationStation, and the emulators?

dankcushions

@tango said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

@dankcushions said in AdvMAME in 2021 - on Pi 3 and Pi 4:

lr-fbneo has been part of retropie since 4.5 in 2019: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/releases/tag/4.5

It wasn't showing up in my emulators, either in EmulationStation. I'm trying to remember from what I've read. Is ~/RetroPie/roms/fba the directory for fbneo ROMs?

yes (and /arcade and /neogeo - see https://retropie.org.uk/docs/FinalBurn-Neo/ )

And am I right that the emulator won't show up on EmulationStation unless I have ROMs in the directory?

that’s right. however you’ll still see it as installed in retropie-setup’s package manager regardless.

i can't stress enough that apt is nothing to do with emulators in retropie :) emulators are installed and updated via the retropie-setup script, not apt. even if they are there somewhere, apt wouldn't install to the same place as retropie, leverage retropie's config scripts, or add the systems to emulationstation, etc.

Okay, that helps a LOT, since I've been bumbling around here, on and off, for a while, and never realized these packages were handled separately from apt.

How are they updated, then? Do I need to update them manually through the script or are they updated automatically?

https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Updating-RetroPie/

My thought would be that if I use a new image and copy the /home/pi/Retropie directory recursively to the new image, that should preserve all the settings, configuration changes, and high scores to the new system. Please let me know if I'm wrong on that.

it wouldn't. for example, (most) config files are stored in /opt/retropie/configs/* etc. You can probably find some info on copying configs across images elsewhere on the forum, or perhaps someone will reply. personally i don't like to copy configs across from older versions - defaults change, emulators change, etc. I think you can end up carrying sub-optimal settings through to later versions. I like to start fresh, or pick and choose specific config files I know to be safe, but that's just me...

With Debian, I can easily do automatic updates so I don't have to go into a system and do admin work. I used to do that when I ran a business where all my software was on a Debian server. I know some people don't like auto-updates, but I never had a problem with things failing or crashing and that way I only had to deal with doing it manually when doing a dist upgrade.

For an arcade system, I'd like to keep that as automated as possible. I have had very little free time in the past decade and I'd rather automate whatever I can.

So how would I handle that with RetroPie, EmulationStation, and the emulators?

the update link above describes how you update retropie, but before we were talking about what was described as a pre-fbneo image, which would indeed be a dist-upgrade (or 2), which is not a supported in-place upgrade.