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Please do not post a support request without first reading and following the advice in https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first

PSX stuttering in some 3D games

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psxvideo stutterstuttering
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  • D
    Darksavior @pjft
    last edited by Darksavior 4 Apr 2017, 10:09 4 Apr 2017, 09:07

    @pjft Mine is scph7502.bin. Lower case. No complaints from pcsx. I think its a PAL bios too, though it loads anything I throw at it at 60hz np. I've used this bios for over 15yrs in other emulators so I'll use my own experience over a wiki saying 1001 is the only choice.
    Also, get a random usb stick and format it to 32k to test one game with it, heh.

    P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:13 Reply Quote 1
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      pjft @Darksavior
      last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 09:13

      @Darksavior Oh, I perfectly get that and fully agree with you.

      My question is whether the emulator is actually using it - i.e. if you actually remove the file from the folder, do your games stop working - or if it's using its internal BIOS.

      D 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:15 Reply Quote 0
      • D
        Darksavior @pjft
        last edited by Darksavior 4 Apr 2017, 10:16 4 Apr 2017, 09:15

        @pjft If there's no bios, you'll get some message in yellow text on bottom left saying it found no bios, and to expect errors.

        I swear someone had a similar problem to yours, but with nes. PAL tv, but skipping games. Not sure how he fixed it. It was in this forum.

        P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:20 Reply Quote 0
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          dankcushions Global Moderator
          last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 09:20

          @pjft said in PSX stuttering in some 3D games:

          My TV is PAL, meaning it's running at 50Hz. Unfortunately, there was no noticeable difference between PAL or NTSC in terms of stuttering.

          it's a CRT? because modern HDTVs should all run at 60hz fine, unless you've set retropie to use a weird video mode. this might be the root of your problem.

          i do see some very small blips in tekken 3 and i'm sure they exist in other games, it's just tekken 3 is one i'm most familiar with on the psx so they stick out to me. i'm not sure what causes it.

          P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:21 Reply Quote 0
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            pjft @Darksavior
            last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 09:20

            @Darksavior said in PSX stuttering in some 3D games:

            @pjft If there's no bios, you'll get some message in yellow text on bottom left saying it found no bios, and to expect errors.

            I swear someone had a similar problem to yours, but with nes. PAL tv, but skipping games. Not sure how he fixed it. It was in this forum.

            Great - that's what I was looking for. I'll look out for that message, just to sanity check the procedure.

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              pjft @dankcushions
              last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 09:21

              @dankcushions It's not a CRT, it's a 7-8 year old Toshiba REGZA, 1080p LCD. But the default mode that the RPi sets itself up for is 50Hz - should I attempt to force it to a 60Hz mode?

              D 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:25 Reply Quote 0
              • D
                dankcushions Global Moderator @pjft
                last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 09:25

                @pjft said in PSX stuttering in some 3D games:

                @dankcushions It's not a CRT, it's a 7-8 year old Toshiba REGZA, 1080p LCD. But the default mode that the RPi sets itself up for is 50Hz - should I attempt to force it to a 60Hz mode?

                i think so. that seems wrong to me. anything with 1080p must have 60hz i think.

                P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 09:29 Reply Quote 1
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                  pjft @dankcushions
                  last edited by pjft 4 Apr 2017, 10:29 4 Apr 2017, 09:29

                  @dankcushions Sounds good, I'll try that.

                  I suppose I assumed that the RPi would attempt to use a default mode that'd be optimal for the TV, as part of some HDMI handshake protocol (that, truth be told, I am not sure it exists!).

                  I believe it's defaulting to mode 31 (1080p, 50Hz) and you're suggesting changing to mode 16 (1080p, 60Hz). I'll try that later. Thanks!

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • W
                    Wulf
                    last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 19:30

                    hmmm, what about other games for the psx and other emulators? If they aren't experiencing a problem with stuttering would it actually be a tv settings issue?

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • W
                      Wulf
                      last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 19:33

                      also, if it was a frequency issue, wouldn't the stutter be more consistant? plus, unless if I'm mistaken, the refresh rate should only affect the tv image stuttering, not the sound.

                      P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 19:36 Reply Quote 0
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                        pjft @Wulf
                        last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 19:36

                        @Wulf This is quite a wise comment.

                        Indeed, maybe it manifests in other emulators differently, though you are right, I'd be suspicious.

                        I am at home now, and going through the TV modes. It seems it'll accept the 60Hz one (though the 50Hz "scores" higher on the EDID test, unsure why), so I'll try it out and update this later.

                        It might be that RetroArch is trying to render 60fps and, for whatever reason, something here goes weird.

                        But you are correct. This is the only emulator, and it's only in a few games - namely 3D games, which lead me to suspect it might be related to data throughput on streaming from the emulated CD.

                        I'll report back.

                        W 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 19:44 Reply Quote 0
                        • W
                          Wulf @pjft
                          last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 19:44

                          @pjft It could also be related to the emulator itself not liking those games. You see this a lot with psp games on the pi.

                          P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 21:06 Reply Quote 1
                          • P
                            pjft @Wulf
                            last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 21:06

                            So, a few tests later here's what I find:

                            • My TV does work at 60Hz. I do have to disable overscan for that to work well. Shrug.
                            • NTSC games run smoother (visually), it seems, or it's just my eyes playing tricks on me. Anyway, no complaints there.
                            • The weird split-second audio and video stutter stays the same, regardless of 60 vs 50 Hz, running from USB vs memory card. Maybe there's a very so slight improvement, but might just be perception rather than reality. Ridge Racer is easy to replicate in the first track (Yokohama?), inside the tunnel, if you hit the right wall a few times.
                            • I managed to use the proper 7502 BIOS.

                            So, what did I learn? That my TV supports 60Hz, and that some games are smoother, so I'll stick to that for the time being and see how it goes.

                            Thanks all for the inputs and insights.

                            D 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 21:34 Reply Quote 0
                            • E
                              edmaul69 @pjft
                              last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 21:16

                              @pjft testing on a usb 3.0 slim seagate external laptop hard drive formatted in fat32 with a powered usb hub and with crt-p shader enabled. I have not had a single hiccup. I even tested ape escape on the psp that hiccuped when i had my hard drive plugged directly to my pi 3. Testing with a lexar 16gb fat32 usb 2.0 flash drive, using the crt-pi shader, on the powered hub no problems. Plugged directly in i had sound glitches when i hit something in ridge racer 4. Which tells me it is a probably a graphic issue. Some emulators will deem that audio is less important and will drop audio to keep the video running smooth. I believe the pi not having enough power is an issue as when using your thumb drive. Im sure there are more power efficient flash drives that might not show an issue, or even possibly making changes to your drive might help, but i believe power is the issue in your case.

                              W 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 21:39 Reply Quote 1
                              • D
                                dankcushions Global Moderator @pjft
                                last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 21:34

                                @pjft do you have the 'enhanced resolution' option(s) turned on? see https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/Playstation-1#enhanced-graphics

                                even if you don't recall doing this, it's wise to double check. that has caused some minor graphics stutters for me in some games.

                                also you might consider trying .pbps if you're using .cue/.bins, or vice versa.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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                                  pjft
                                  last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 21:39

                                  Thanks all.

                                  @dankcushions I do not have the enhanced resolution option turned on - I actually tested it yesterday to see if it'd help, and even though it looked prettier for a bit, it crashed the whole system shortly afterwards :) I'll try a bit more alternatives, but it's no big issue - I was just trying to see what others experienced, in order to know what to look for. The 60Hz thing is already a good improvement - especially on those NeoGeo games with flickery transparencies like Samurai Showdown 4 - they look a lot better now!

                                  @edmaul69 Interesting. You tested Ridge Racer using all those methods, and the one that had trouble was running from the thumb drive?

                                  I may see if increasing the voltage, or testing from an externally powered drive would work. Need to get my hands on something for that effect, though. But that's a good pointer for the future - noted! Thanks!

                                  I don't want you all to spend more time on this, I'm happy with the outcome of the exercise at least :)

                                  Thank you all!

                                  E 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 21:45 Reply Quote 0
                                  • W
                                    Wulf @edmaul69
                                    last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 21:39

                                    @edmaul69 hmmm, that sounds plausible. Out of curiosity, what's the amp rating on the power supply you used? USB 2.0 has specs for 500 mA (which means the USB drive can't have more than that, and is probably much less).

                                    I also found this page about the compatibility of games and the PCSX-ReARMed emulator: https://www.reddit.com/r/RetroPie/comments/4t37fb/psx_compatibility_list/

                                    It's not based on raspberry pi, so take it with a grain of salt, but ridge racer 4 didn't seem to have any obvious issues.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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                                      edmaul69 @pjft
                                      last edited by edmaul69 4 Apr 2017, 22:52 4 Apr 2017, 21:45

                                      @pjft @Wulf i have a rockband powered usb hub with a canakit raspberry pi 2.5a power supply. And i have the same power suppy powering my pi 3. The flash drive ran perfect on the hub but not had issues plugged directly in. Upping the power might to the usb ports might help. I tested the rally games as well on the plugged in hard drive and they ran smooth on that. I didnt test them on the flash drive as i already found a problem in ridge racer.

                                      W 1 Reply Last reply 4 Apr 2017, 23:29 Reply Quote 0
                                      • W
                                        Wulf @edmaul69
                                        last edited by 4 Apr 2017, 23:29

                                        @edmaul69 I wonder why you didn't see an undervoltage warning.... maybe it was just above the threshold or possibly the USB would take a spike in power consumption for a very short time...

                                        E 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2017, 06:02 Reply Quote 0
                                        • P
                                          pi2user
                                          last edited by pi2user 4 May 2017, 00:46 4 Apr 2017, 23:44

                                          I noticed annoying stuttering with PS1 games as well. I guessed the data could not be read be read from the USB flash drive fast enough. I re-formatted the flash drive using ext4 with a large blocksize and mounted it using the noatime flag, and noticed a lot less stuttering. The game I was using to test was level 1 of R-Type Delta bin/cue format.
                                          The command to reformat the usb was this:
                                          sudo mkfs.ext4 -b 4096 -L DATABAR /dev/sdc1
                                          where databar is the name of the new volume, 4096 is the blocksize, and /dev/sdc1 is the device. Obviously this will completely wipe the flash drive.
                                          Then it is mounted in /etc/fstab like this:
                                          LABEL=DATABAR /home/pi/RetroPie ext4 defaults,noatime,nofail,x-systemd.device-timeout=5 0 2
                                          Apparently for ext4 using the noatime flag is the big performance gain.
                                          If you have a spare usb flash drive you could try it.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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