Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?

cyclone5uk · 14 Jul 2017, 08:50

I’m using lr-fbalpha for CPSI-II and for Konami TMNT-style beat ‘em ups. These play great on lr-fbalpha but for some reason Sega System 16 are sluggish.

So I downloaded the 0.78 Mame romset for use with lr-mame2003 on my Pi3 for playing Sega System 16 games (i.e. Alien Syndrome, Shinobi, Altered Beast, ESWAT, Golden Axe, Wonderboy III, etc.)

However, to my surprise many of them would not run, or MAME complained about the specific rom version (asking for a version that wasn’t even in the full romset) or they had strange glitches (Altered Beast).

Could anyone suggest an alternative to lr-mame2003 that will have more success in running Sega System 16 games?

Darksavior · 14 Jul 2017, 09:15

@cyclone5uk If the games don't run it means the romsets aren't correct, they require a bootleg version, or in some cases, an alternate set of the game. I don't use mame2003 for system16 just because of the in-accurate sound emulation in the two games I tested: shinobi (2nd level missing audio channels), and E-Swat.
Those games ran on mame2010 with the correct sound emulation but I haven't tested the rest. I just installed mame2016 so I'll test the games on that when I can.

I was really excited when I heard FBA fully supported system16 games...and then disappointed when they ran like crap or just barely.

pjft · 14 Jul 2017, 09:26

Correct. Most if not all of those games, with the correct romset, will run on MAME 2003.

I've seen mentions in the forums about some of them not being perfectly emulated on MAME 2003, so I use MAME 2010 with good results as well for Shinobi and others.

cyclone5uk · 14 Jul 2017, 09:38

Thing is, I downloaded the full MAME 0.78 Reference Set from CENSORED

So surely there shouldn’t be any roms in there that don’t work with lr-mame2003?

I’m interested to test out System 16 games on lr-mame2010 though – is that easy to do on Retropie (i.e. just point the emulator config file to an alternate emulator)?

Darksavior · 14 Jul 2017, 09:45

@cyclone5uk said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

I’m interested to test out System 16 games on lr-mame2010 though – is that easy to do on Retropie (i.e. just point the emulator config file to an alternate emulator)?

You'll need the 2010 romset, but yea, press any button before your game loads to make them use an alternate emulator.

Also, delete the website where you got your games from. It's against the rules.

pjft · 14 Jul 2017, 09:46

@cyclone5uk ~~Please edit the post and refrain from explicitly stating where to find ROMs. That is against the rules. Thanks.~~

If you're getting ROMs that don't work, checking the message at the runcommand logs should help clarify why that is the case - maybe a missing BIOS is to be blamed.

EDIT: I see you already redacted that.

dankcushions · 14 Jul 2017, 09:48

@cyclone5uk said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

Thing is, I downloaded the full MAME 0.78 Reference Set from CENSORED

So surely there shouldn’t be any roms in there that don’t work with lr-mame2003?

not at all. the right romset is required for any compatibility, but doesn't guarantee every game within works. plenty of roms in the mame2003 0.78 romset had incomplete or non-working emulation. further, the fact that we're running this on an ARM cpu (it was coded for x86) and it's a forked version (running under libretro rather than natively) introduces further issues. see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1MELCvcxu7TfiowF_0ZuvRVEMqlfQyTVetnOJvuJc/edit#gid=1744967714

Darksavior · 14 Jul 2017, 09:52

@pjft said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

maybe a missing BIOS is to be blamed.

System16 games require no bios. As I already said, some might require an alternate set of the same game or the bootleg version. The original game AND the bootleg in some cases. If it's an older emulator like mame4all, bootlegs is all it supports. I don't remember the specific of which emulator supporting what. I don't remember which emulator I tested Shinobi with, but some sets would make the audio run in a higher pitch. Might've been an older fba.

dankcushions · 14 Jul 2017, 09:55

@dankcushions said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

@cyclone5uk said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

Thing is, I downloaded the full MAME 0.78 Reference Set from CENSORED

So surely there shouldn’t be any roms in there that don’t work with lr-mame2003?

not at all. the right romset is required for any compatibility, but doesn't guarantee every game within works. plenty of roms in the mame2003 0.78 romset had incomplete or non-working emulation. further, the fact that we're running this on an ARM cpu (it was coded for x86) and it's a forked version (running under libretro rather than natively) introduces further issues. see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1MELCvcxu7TfiowF_0ZuvRVEMqlfQyTVetnOJvuJc/edit#gid=1744967714

EDIT: that said, complaining about rom versions seems wrong. i'd need a specific example to comment.

cyclone5uk · 14 Jul 2017, 13:17

@dankcushions Ah, I see - makes sense.

I will try out lr-mame2010 , sounds like I'll have more success.

I assume that even though lr-mame2010 supports more complex games, I shouldn't see a performance issue on a Pi3 for Sega System 16 games?

dankcushions · 14 Jul 2017, 14:32

@cyclone5uk said in Best MAME version for Sega System 16 on Pi3?:

@dankcushions Ah, I see - makes sense.

I will try out lr-mame2010 , sounds like I'll have more success.

I assume that even though lr-mame2010 supports more complex games, I shouldn't see a performance issue on a Pi3 for Sega System 16 games?

as mame gets updated it tends to get more accurate, so things tend to get slower, if anything.

arcadez2003 · 8 Oct 2017, 23:55

There is a trick you can do at driver level to speed up these games on lesser hardware, in the Sega X, Y and Outrun drivers do this........

MDRV_INTERLEAVE(10) // make it this to speed things up

I haven't noticed any problems in the games by doing the above.

Darksavior · 9 Oct 2017, 07:20

@gamez-fan Interesting. Any dev please be aware the system16 audio emulation is not...great on mame2003, so the ideal choices to implement this are lr-fbalpha and mame2010 and up. Well, unless someone wants to fix the emulation from a newer mame but maybe that's opening a can of worms.

edmaul69 · 9 Oct 2017, 07:31

@darksavior did you try speeding up emulation. In mame2010 it is an f key between f10-f12. I forget which one. You should be able to do the same in mame 2003. It fixes audio issues most of the time doing that. I havent tried the system 16 roms yet.

Darksavior · 9 Oct 2017, 08:15

@edmaul69 No, but isn't that just enabling frameskip? The audio problems I'm talking about are due to the audio not being properly emulated. So in e-swat the sound effects are off, and in shinobi, the 2nd map has missing audio channels. The rest of the system16 games might have bugs as well but I haven't tested those.

pjft · 9 Oct 2017, 08:27

I have pretty much resorted to AdvanceMame for anything that the lr-MAME cores (mostly 2003) can't handle with a decent framerate and no glitches on the Pi3, and it's been surprisingly reliable.

I can even run the Sega System 24 games on it without any slowdown or problems, namely Bonanza Bros, CrackDown and Gain Ground.

Strongly recommend.