mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

barbudreadmon

@rek607 said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

Would you recommend mame2003plus over final burn neo for neogeo games?

There are very few games that have arguably better emulation in mame2003plus than in FBNeo, and neogeo is definitely not in that list, afaik 17 years ago neogeo emulation in MAME was already inferior to FinalBurn's, and even now i heard from users FBNeo is still the superior neogeo emulator against MAME (supposedly they saw some glitches in latest MAME, but they didn't give me the details). So the answer is no, but i believe mame2003plus is still a solid option for neogeo emulation if you simply prefer MAME, tbh you probably won't encounter that many issues even with mame2000.

Riverstorm

@rek607 said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

Will we be able to update mame2003plus in older retropie versions such as 4.6 in the future?

You should be able to update mame2003-plus on 4.6 just fine.

I've even updated mame2003-plus as far back as 4.4 (built on Stretch) and it worked fine. On 4.4 you can only update from source (vs binary) if you want the latest build. If you're updating mame2003-plus it's probably due to an addition and you'll want it from source anyway. RetroPie just recently (I think yesterday or so) disabled binary downloads on Stretch.

I use a lot of backdrops and overlays (bezel type) in mame2003-plus that I've never tried in FBNeo. Shaders seem to work fine in either.

Also there are some must have games in mame2003-plus that don't exist in FBNeo. On the other hand FBNeo has some games that mame2003-plus doesn't. You could go with either core if one has all or a majority of the games you play. I still use mame2003-plus as my main core and supplement with FBNeo.

Also when it comes to vector games I think AdvMAME is the way to go but I think the recent version (3.9) on RetroPie has issues or maybe it's been fixed now. I don't know if there's a way to pull AdvMAME 3.8 into the RetroPie 4.7.1, then it would be the perfect version.

Here's a pic of AdvMAME vs. mame2003-plus. I tweaked a lot of settings and just couldn't get them the same. The pic clearly shows the difference but when you're back a ways and playing mame2003-plus does look great too but AdvMAME just has smoother thinner lines. I don't know about FBNeo as I've never tried vector games with it.

AdvMAME vs. mame2003-plus:

barbudreadmon

@riverstorm I'm pretty sure mame2003+ has something in core options for upscaling vector gfx, did you enable it ? FBNeo also has core options for upscaling vector gfx, but there is no backdrop support.

Riverstorm

@riverstorm I'm pretty sure mame2003+ has something in core options for upscaling vector gfx, did you enable it ? FBNeo also has core options for upscaling vector gfx, but there is no backdrop support.

Hey thanks, yeah, I think I've tried most of the settings. Here's what I settled on using for vector games below (HD horizontal). Honestly it does look more than acceptable. I would try both and maybe he'll prefer one core over the other. It's almost like they have entirely different implementations. I know the settings are subjective and some prefer a real solid vector line or higher flicker or intensity, etc. and some monitors I've tried simply just look better than the TV.

With a high res backdrops they look pretty amazing. The pic above on the left is Omega Race with an updated high res backdrop vs. the one on the right is the original backdrop.

mame2003-plus_vector_antialias = "enabled"
mame2003-plus_vector_beam_width = "1"
mame2003-plus_vector_flicker = "20"
mame2003-plus_vector_intensity = "1.5"
mame2003-plus_vector_resolution = "1440x1080"
mame2003-plus_vector_translucency = "enabled"

barbudreadmon

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

It's almost like they have entirely different implementations

Thanks for pointing this out, it turns out that FBNeo has the same issue than mame2003+, and after some investigations i figured out the issue : the lines are uneven because the drawing algorythm somehow expect the PAR (pixel aspect ratio) to be 1:1, setting DAR (display aspect ratio) to width:height makes those lines smooth.

From there, i have 2 theories i must confront with other FBNeo devs :

either the DAR (display aspect ratio) must always be set to width:height indeed for vector games
or the current DAR are right, and it's the job of the drawing algorythm to take DAR into account

Riverstorm

@barbudreadmon - That’s great news, thanks! I look forward to how it turns out. I use AdvMAME mainly for vector games. I think the current version has some regression issue(s) and it runs slow with Retropie. This might be an opportunity to drop the core and stick with m3plus & FBNeo for retro gaming.

Clyde

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

@barbudreadmon - That’s great news, thanks! I look forward to how it turns out. I use AdvMAME mainly for vector games. I think the current version has some regression issue(s) and it runs slow with Retropie. This might be an opportunity to drop the core and stick with m3plus & FBNeo for retro gaming.

Especially since AdvMAME isn't an RA core and thus, doesn't benefit from RA's unified interface and configuration. At least that's my main reason to prefer m3plus & fbneo, with no clear preference for one over the other.

Ashpool

@barbudreadmon said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

the drawing algorythm somehow expect the PAR (pixel aspect ratio) to be 1:1, setting DAR (display aspect ratio) to width:height

Sorry to step in here, but out of curiousity(!): How is a PAR (or SAR) value for a vector based rom, or better to say display width/height information, obtainable? The FBNeo xml structure is AFAIK nearly omitting all valuable information in those regards and with mame.xml datfiles the display/video entry for screen == vector roms have no width/height information, though the orientation of the display (horizontal/vertical) is included. So my assumption so far was that vector games comply to the DAR == 4/3 or 3/4 rule of thumb (see last bullet point in: LAY File Basics - Part I)? Have I missed something, or am i just interpreting your words beyond or wrongly within their scope?

Riverstorm

That’s true it’s missing the Libretro benefits and features. Though it is a strong, stable, flexible core that’s matured.

I know some use it as a primary core. Hopefully they figure out the “slowness” issue at some point as it’s one of the more well rounded solid alternatives to play and test with. Backdrops and overlays are solid but in regards to shaders, AdvMAME falls short, it’s hard to beat crt-pi and zfast on these low end boards.

barbudreadmon

@ashpool said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

How is a PAR (or SAR) value for a vector based rom, or better to say display width/height information, obtainable?

In RetroArch, you can get all those informations by enabling statistics in on-screen display settings

@ashpool said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

So my assumption so far was that vector games comply to the DAR == 4/3 or 3/4 rule of thumb

It seems to have been the assumption when writing those drivers in FBNeo too, however the width:height doesn't always match that ratio, meaning you end up with a PAR different from 1:1, which i think is the only PAR making sense for a vector game (width and height of a point should be the same).

arcadez2003

This post is deleted!

arcadez2003

Work still continues on with regards to the MAME2003+ core but i wont rabbit on about the new game support or the many
fixes and improvements here as that is what the changelog and the whatsnew build files are for, but i thought it worth a mention
that you can now play three classic Sega games which due to the usual drama and politics will not be supported in the
official MAME releases.

They wont set the heather on fire right enough but if your a fan of the genre or Sega games in general you might wanna give em a whirl...

Head On Channel

Oo Parts

Sega Sonic Bros

Also some of you might be aware a long lost game turned up recently which was meant to be Midway's attempt at creating
a NBA Jam like version of a baseball game, it didn't really pan out and it's release into the Arcades was cancelled
but now you can also play this curio in MAME2003+

Power Up Baseball

Just lemmie know sometime if you think the trackball inputs need some tweaking as per the pitch and batting speeds.

Clyde

@arcadez2003 said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

you can now play three classic Sega games which due to the usual drama and politics will not be supported in the official MAME releases.

Thanks! Could you elaborate a little about MAME? (just curious)

barbudreadmon

@clyde said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

@arcadez2003 said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

you can now play three classic Sega games which due to the usual drama and politics will not be supported in the official MAME releases.

Thanks! Could you elaborate a little about MAME? (just curious)

iirc those rarities were dumped for the sake of preservation but not added to MAME because the group that dumped them forbade it (something along the lines of "if you add those games to MAME, we won't dump anything anymore for you"). those dumps were leaked anonymously some time ago. they were added to HBMAME though so i don't understand the logic.

Clyde

@barbudreadmon Thanks. Whatever the reasons of the dumping group were. As for HBMAME, maybe its developers just did it anyway and the group either didn't care or didn't go through with their announced consequences.

edit: typo corrected (devekopers)

dankcushions

i was curious so did some research: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=159689.0 - see haze's (mame dev) reply. i'm not sure how the end result is that it is not within official mame, but it sounds like the dumps had the potential to burn some bridges so for the sake maintaining their japanese contacts, i guess they chose to exclude these (crappy?) games.

ie what @barbudreadmon said :D

arcadez2003

There are two sides to every story so as a "former" member of the dumping union here is my "opinion" :)

The return of Team Jadump several years ago required that the MAME guru the man responsible for dumping 80%
of your favorite arcade games the man who single handily has done more to further the preservation of classic arcade
games than all the rest of us put together needed to be sidelined, This is due in no small part to several members of team
Jadump having an issue personally with him.

Some people myself included consider Team Jadump to be nothing more than a pcb hoarding collective, sure they'll throw
MAME dev the odd bone like say a Japanese version of a game there is already multiple dumps available for or some lame
prototype no one cares about, any good stuff they have will require that the DU, MAME DEV and or general users all have to club
together and raise something like 5K so they will dump it like we seen with Hang-Zo for example.

What MAME and the DU fail to realise is this only helps to fill their pockets and they'll use that money to secure yet another
rare arcade game which disappear into their private collection never to see the light of day again, so in the long run
MAME DEV and the DU are only cutting their own throats here.

And i guess they fail to remember that team Jadump sat on a copy of a rare game called Monkey Magic, they knew the DU
was going to bid big money to try and secure the game and did not inform them they already had a copy of it which could
have been dumped and shared with the DU for free, but no they let the DU waste thousands of pounds securing another
version of that rare game when that money could have been better spent elsewhere not exactly DU friendly behaviour IMO.

HAZE is spinning a yarn sticking to the company line that these games were stolen, certainly there is a leak in Japan otherwise
the Guru would not have obtained the dumps for these super rare prototype Sega C2 games from several different sources,
what he fails to mention however is several members of Team Jadump actually own the pcb's for these games so have a vested
interest when it comes to their inclusion into the official MAME project or not.

Well at least there is the upside that there are now three less games they can charge 5k to emulate :)

Ofcourse his argument around why these games are omitted from MAME kinda falls flat when you consider they support this stolen game............

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/after-a-lost-atari-rom-leaks-retro-fans-ask-was-it-stolen/

A clear double standard here then i guess they only bother if the arcade pcbs which belong to "certain" people are released when they shouldn't be :)

Anyway if MAME dev want to bite the hand that constantly fed them for 20 years eg The Guru and side with a bunch of rom hoarders who
only see MAME as some sort of cash cow that can be milked constantly all in the vain hope they might share something half decent with them
down the road and not charge $$$$$$ in the process then that is their choice.

Personally i was always taught to choose your friends very carefully only time will tell if the DU and MAME DEV have made the correct decision.

barbudreadmon

@dankcushions said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

these (crappy?) games

I know ooparts is a nice variant of breakout, i never tried the 2 others.

arcadez2003

@barbudreadmon said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

@dankcushions said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

these (crappy?) games

I know ooparts is a nice variant of breakout, i never tried the 2 others.

It's a decent wee game if you like Arkanoid you'll love this one, it has some boss battles a nifty trick where if you slam your
paddle into the side of the screen it will shudder and shuffle the enemies around and change the pitch of the ball direction
it's got some smart powerups and nice graphical effects here and there you could do alot worse than to give it whirl.

I'll now review the others :)

Unless your a Sonic The Hedgehog fanatic then your not gonna really find too much worth when it comes to playing
Sega Sonic Bros as it's just puzzle dropper more or less, and well the Bust A Move games by Taito really are IMO the pinnacle
of that type of game.

Head On Channel is nothing more than an update to the Head On franchise which sits alongside Counter Run, but unlike those
games it doesn't take itself too seriously and it's chock full of japanese whackyness, so not a bad game not a good game it sits
somewhere in the middle and you'll likely never play it more than a few times.

But whether a game is crap or not the jist of it is a preservation society should seek to use dumps of any game which become
available rather than picking and choosing which ones to support in their project incase they upset certain people who as i've
already stated i think do not have the projects best interests in mind.

There is a divide also when it comes to two Atari prototypes namely Danger Express and Marble Madness II from what i can tell
most people in the DU want to see them emulated where as certain MAME dev's are sticking to a gentlemens agreement struck
years ago with collecters who are not on friendly terms with the project anyhow, and since there will be no future dumps
forthcoming from them there would in a sense be nothing to lose if the romsets are leaked anyway.

From reading my comments people can clearly see where i stand on this, MAME Dev are entitled to their viewpoint as well
the only difference being my "opinions" dont impact on others in the sense im not preventing you all from playing certain games.

gomisensei

@arcadez2003 pretty sure it's JaPump... Here's the rest of the story as i've been told it...

https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Number=366886