mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

robertvb83

@grant2258 would you prefer to play 4-button games on a 6-Button layout as
4
123

rather than
34
12
?
I would not have taken this into consideration, it feels unnatural for me but interesting, that's all just personal preferences. as said it doesn't really affect me much.
I am a little afraid that the majority will not easily come clean with the concept of core or game remap files, which once understood is a really comfortable way to get your collection configured quickly

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 would you prefer to play 4-button games on a 6-Button layout as
4
123

rather than
34
12
?
I would not have taken this into consideration, it feels unnatural for me but interesting, that's all just personal preferences. as said it doesn't really affect me much.
I am a little afraid that the majority will not easily come clean with the concept of core or game remap files, which once understood is a really comfortable way to get your collection configured quickly

Well if i only used gamepads which i rarely do I would have that memory muscle pattern.

Ive always used arcade type controls so my memory muscle patterns are towards that is all.

Like you said at the end of the day its a generic starting point and we cant please everyone no matter which one we choose.

Gamepad users will try get that same muscle memory pattern instead of an arcade style I do get where your coming from.

is the shape you seeking in your mind from gamepads

Riverstorm

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

well described! this is exactly what should be done. I still think that
345
123
is a valid baseline

I don't think it's a bad setup but you loose a very useful feature and that's the ability to page up/page down in you game emulators. This feature is by default buttons LR (potentially 56) in MAME.

If you have a large game list of 200 or 300 games it's handy to page down to the middle of the list vs. one game at a time that takes quite a bit longer. If you have over 1,000 it would be a nightmare to scroll down one game at a time.

I am not sure of the exact goal of subtypes but I think they are perfect for beginners or out of the box up and running. As you become more familiar with RA then remaps are a great way to tweak your controls to perfection.

I agree with Grant every input scheme/diagram for RA is 100% based on controllers and nothing around Arcade panels. I never really noticed until you pointed it out. I think your idea of leaving RA alone and remapping MAME is perfect. Then you're still rooted in RA but complete freedom with Plus to customize how you see fit.

Gamepad users will try get that same muscle memory pattern instead of an arcade style I do get where your coming from.

is the shape you seeking in your mind from gamepads

@robertvb83 - That IS the shape by default for gamepads. No need to seek it! :)

I think what Grant has been saying for weeks now is really we have two separate things. Arcade panels and gamepads. Gamepads have been established and pretty much standard but he's trying to address is mapping RA gamepad buttons to MAME buttons not taking for granted physical layout needs to be taken into account.

robertvb83

@riverstorm I think you mix up something! the subtype config we are talking about refers ONLY to ingame controls! this has nothing to do with controls within Emulationstation and scrolling through your list of games. This changes nothing to your controller layout anywhere outside a running game!

think of it like this. You define your Retropad in Emulationstation like

YXL
BAR

and you can use L and R for scrolling, then within Retroarch (after loading a game) this will be remapped to mame-buttons 1 to 6 in any order that you wish. so you can assign mame button 1 and 2 (e.g. shoot and jump) to whatever buttons you like. You never change YXRBAR you only change the assignment which physical button points to which mame button ingame function

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@riverstorm I think you mix up something! the subtype config we are talking about refers ONLY to ingame controls! this has nothing to do with controls within Emulationstation and scrolling through your list of games. This changes nothing to your controller layout anywhere outside a running game!

think of it like this. You define your Retropad in Emulationstation like

YXL
BAR

and you can use L and R for scrolling, then within Retroarch (after loading a game) this will be remapped to mame-buttons 1 to 6 in any order that you wish. so you can assign mame button 1 and 2 (e.g. shoot and jump) to whatever buttons you like. You never change YXRBAR you only change the assignment which physical button points to which mame button ingame function

this is correct well it is now this is not the case for mame2003 though. Mark has made these changes.

the only question is the defaults set not being right
123
456

thats why you guys get to decide on a new new retropie_default_6 panel in a poll

it is important to keep in mind everything is redifineable you can explain to people why they cant play 6 button games with your default that why i could never pick that one myself

Riverstorm

@robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

grant2258

@riverstorm

he has this layout

 3 4 5
_______
|o o o| 
|o o o|

 1 2 3
-------

best i can do with ascii

robertvb83

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with
345
123

so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

btw see my signature. its linked to my cabinet with pictures of my control panel layout

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with
345
123

so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

you do loose functionality for 6 button games again up people can vote for the retropie_choice thats the fairest and easiest way. If i was setting my panel up like that id just throw it out and just plug a gamepad in instead. The whole point is these panels can handle the configurations a gamepad cant thats why you need separate controls for sf2 and neogeo with a gamepad if you and most user want a gamepad emulated on panel i can live with that we still have the other panel default

robertvb83

@grant2258 nah, 6 button games are considered to be manual configured as we all like to comfortably rest our palms and use bottom row primarily.
456
123
is also not feasible for 6 button games, you will need
123
456
so there is a clear advantage for
345
123

I feel a little tired, too much has been said about this more-complex-than-I-ever-thought topic

grant2258

@robertvb83

for you in gamepad world this works
345
123
i would never use that on a 6 panel set up i would rebin straight away
to
123
456
or
456
123

i do understand you want a gamepad shape. i want aracde shapes we can support both if people want panel shaped like a snes pad they can vote for it is just not for me is all im saying your views are as valid as mine it personal choice

Riverstorm

@grant2258 - I don't think the ASCII is displaying correctly.

sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with

345

123

so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

Ask not what MAME can do for you but what you can do for MAME! I need your vote! When I see that layout it reminds me of a hybrid panel/controller. When the goal is a panel layout.

Just to understand better though what games do you play with 34 above 12?

When I map NES, SNES, Atari, etc. I do use that layout with a core change in that emulator. I am thinking strictly of MAME here. I am not sure what to think of using 3 twice and dumping button 6 altogether.

I think over 90%? possibly 95%? don't use 6 buttons so 456 123 seems a better fit to me mostly and remap that little percentage as 123 456 for 6 button games. :)

grant2258

I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

grant2258

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

im guessing robert will be or something similar it nice to have alternative ideas
3456
1234

Riverstorm

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

Shoot! I have 2 panels and 1 mini arcade cabinet all are 6 buttons. I haven't even gave thought to 8. I wish I wold have though so I could cover Neo-Geo games as 1234. :)

I am honestly ok with any setup but for some reason dumping a button altogether and dual binding another seems a bit "different". I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

robertvb83

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 - I don't think the ASCII is displaying correctly.

Just to understand better though what games do you play with 34 above 12?

ONLY 4 Button games! if I had 8 buttons I would use
5678
1234

because top row is irrelevant there are no games with 5 buttons (maybe a handful not in my interest)

I would still need to do 6 button custom to fit to sf2
1237
4568

grant2258

@robertvb83

how would you play you 4 player games on that you dont have

34
1234

neogeo and mame are doable easily

1234
456

456
1234

both work

robertvb83

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:
I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

so can you name me ONE game that stacks 4 above 1 like in
4
123

sorry but this is just not the point! I would play them 1234 if I could! but I cant in my 6 Button layout! so there are only two possibilities for 4-Button games
456
123
or
345
123

and I prefer the latter

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:
I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

sorry but this is just not the point! I would play them 1234 if I could! but I cant in my 6 Button layout! so there are only two possibilities for 4-Button games
456
123
or
345
123

and I prefer the latter

Well that clears thing up for me your ok with the 8 panel 4 in a row i was just curious. I can fully undestand you have this preference for a 6 button layout.

Riverstorm

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

sorry but this is just not the point!

I have to admit this seems to be the exact point. That layout that is. I can't name a single game that stacks 4 above 123 but 123 in a row seems to cover more arcade games then 34 above 12. Isn't the point to be closer to how an arcade panel would be laid out?