lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4
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I've tested the first 100 US Licensed games in alphabetical order on a 4.3 Pi Zero, up to "Castlevania X". lr-snes9x2002 works "near perfect" for a vast majority of them so far. 5 of the games have speed and/or sound issues or other glitches that cannot be fixed by any of the emulators that would play them at an acceptable speed on a Zero.
The game "Big Sky Trooper" is the only one that isn't playable at all so far because in all of the emulators that I've tried there are missing sprites that seem to be necessary in order to progress very early on. Some emulators show more on this game than others.
All roms being tested are No-Intro as well as matches to the latest GoodSNES set.
Emulators I'm using for testing are lr-snes9x2002, lr-armsnes, lr-snes9x2005, lr-snes9x2010, pisnes. lr-snes9x2002 is default. (It should be noted that in my testing so far that any problem I had in any game running in lr-snes9x2002 is also exactly the same when trying lr-armsnes. After this point I will stop re-testing any problem roms with lr-armsnes).
Settings I'm using:
- Pi Zero with RetroPie 4.3, with all packages upgraded except for the OS/Kernel.
- RetroArch version after uptates is 1.7.3, and Snes9x2002 version is 7.2.0.
- Overclocked CPU to 1GHz
- Global Options Changed: Video Smooth: True / Video Resolution: 320x240
- Default Emulator: lr-snes9x2002
- "Set ""4 Select default video mode for [x emulator] (CEA-2)"" ............... For whatever reason, setting this to CEA-2 seems to slightly improve emulation speed and gets some games over the hump. For instance, The 7th Saga seems to play perfect with
this as well as the other above settings, where if you didn't chose CEA-2 here then there would be a very slight audio stutter in certain situations."
It should be noted that when I say "nearly perfect" that's a subjective view. First big thing I'm looking for is zero audio stutter. After that, it's "would I play this"? Not as in, is it a good game, but does it play smoothly enough to be enjoyable. Personally, I'm going to end up using a Pi 3 for all of my non-Xbox emulation, but my brother got me started on this with his idea to make some Pi Zeros for his nephews, so that's what I'm working with now. I'm not interested in getting all crazy and monitoring FPS here.
I'm mostly a fan of the RPG & Puzzle games on the SNES, but I'm also a fan of quite a few of the platforms as well. I've never been a huge fan of sports games, so beyond those two things the sports games in general are not going to get much attention from me here.
All games are tested at least up to the point where you have control of your avatar and I have at least around 10-15 seconds of physical play time.
Pretty impressive that out of the first 100 games that 94 of them play so well.
I'm going to be releasing my spreadsheet documenting this all eventually, as well as my as-of-now much more in-depth NES/FDS spreadsheet I've been teasing for a long time. I'll probably release this SNES very soon since it's so much more basic at this point. It was copied from my NES one first though, so I need to make sure that there aren't any links to things that are not allowed here before I do.
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Just a little update...
I've managed to get through the letter "E" with the US Lincesed game testing.
164 games tested. Only 6 so far completely unplayable on a Pi Zero. Another 7 of them are playable with a bit of slowdown or other minor annoyances here and there. All of the rest of them are more than acceptable though.
I've decided since I'm going through this trouble of testing these games before I was ever going to get to them for my brother's Pi Zero, I'm also going ahead and making the Synopsis files for all of them as well, so after running the script on them I will have all of the game info and descriptions for them as well as the synopsis cited link in my spreadsheet. The only info that probably won't be in there this early is how many players each game has, because I do that as part of my testing and whenever I get around to re-testing these games on the XBox I will also be adding that info. Everything else is there though.
I'll have some free days soon, so I plan on giving this a huge push and I hope to have all of the licensed games tested (US, as well as non-clones EU and Japan games).
My hope is to have this spreadsheet ready to share within the next week to 10 days. I've discovered that when I "hide" sheets and columns that they remain hidden from anybody who has the link and they aren't able to change that. Because of this, while I'm working on a specific aspect of the project some columns may or may not be available since hiding columns while I'm doing work makes certain tasks easier on my end.
So far the info columns I will have are the "Ressurection Xtras Name" (the 42 or less character file name required by XBox that is the exact same as all associated media), the Full Game Title (as displayed in the romlist), matching file names for latest No-Intro, GoodTools and TOSEC sets, Rom CRC value, which emulator works the best on a PI Zero (and I have in my revamped/structured Pi Zero
emulators.cfgfile), and a column "Rx Recommended" as just a personal checklist of games that I would actually ever play. (Mileage may vary)The NES already has a ton more work done as far as the massive amount of Translations, Hacks, Pirates, Unlicensed and Homebrew games that are part of the collection, as well as all of the matching artwork for every game (Boxes, Carts/Disks, Title and Action shots), Manuals (JPG zipped and PDF formats), videos (only low quality old ones until I re-make all of them in HD), gamefaq zip collections and a lot of other stuff. So the NES spreadsheet has a ton of additional information right now than the SNES will have until I have the time to dive into that platform.
I'm going to start new threads for both the SNES and NES spreadsheet and projects when I am ready to put them up. I don't know if anybody would be interested, but at that point if anybody notices that I have anything in the wrong area, or perhaps I'm somehow missing a game or two please feel free to let me know and I will put it on my to-do list of things to correct before I put any releases out. Right now, the only thing I would imagine I'm missing in the SNES licensed games would be possibly a few EU games that aren't clones of US releases and maybe a few Japan games that are playable by an English speaking audience. It should be a complete US Licensed set, but I double dog dare anybody to find the one I'm missing. ;)
I don't imagine that I'm missing anything in the NES set at all. I've put my heart and soul into that project for over a year now. :)
More to come...
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Still plugging away at this. Overall results are still really good. Synopsis/gamelist.xml info has been created for 500 of the US Licensed games, and I've tested somewhere around 275 games so far. The only game I can't get to work so far on the PI Zero that I'd imagine people would miss is Kirby's Dream Land III. pisnes loads it to a black screen and x2002 will play it but with quite a bit of slowdown and audio stutter. :(
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
The only game I can't get to work so far on the PI Zero that I'd imagine people would miss is Kirby's Dream Land III.
This can be expected. 'Kirby's Dream Land 3' made use of several uncommon techniques to produce its visuals that often need a bit more power to emulate at full speed. On a stock Pi 3B, the game hovers at about 56 fps and dips here and there. Overclocking solves this and I imagine the minor upgrade to processing power from a stock 3B+ would be enough to do the same. However, I doubt there's much that can be done here for the Raspberry Pi Zero. You'll likely also run into issues with the SNES titles that utilized Super FX/2 chips, as well as perhaps Ocean's 'Jurassic Park' and 'Secret of Mana 2' ('Seiken Densetsu 3').
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@mediamogul Yeah... Although I haven't gotten to the other titles in your list alphabetically, those are some of the titles that I know or at least assumed won't work on the Pi Zero. My list of games that I had already knew won't work on the Zero before going into this were Secret of Mana (the first one), Star Fox, and Super Mario RPG.
Jurassic Park "works", but I put a note on the spreadsheet to compare the "3D" parts on my XBox. It's playable, but it seems kind of hard to control and I think that's because of dropped frames.
Doom doesn't work, but that doesn't really matter since lr-prboom works fine on a Pi Zero and I have Doom, Doom II and both expansions running fine with all the DOS tracks on them.
Secret of Mana 2 actually won't be included on my bro's Pi. I told him that at least for now I'm only putting on the translations I had for the NES/FDS because I personally re-patched all the games and made sure they were working. My old sets had a lot of roms patched incorrectly.
Secret of Mana 1 actually will play on at least one of the emulators at a good speed, but the problem is that earlier versions of Snes9x didn't emulate it correctly. If memory serves, there is an extra chip on that game that wasn't emulated until later versions of Snes9x. I believe that it's emulated properly on Snes9x2010, but it lags horribly and is unplayable in that emulator. Playing it on the earlier versions doesn't completely break the game, but it totally garbles the screen where you input your name, and there may be other later issues with it as well. It doesn't garble any text when talking to NPCs though.
Thanks for the info on KDL3 man. Good to have confirmation from others on my findings like this.
I'll get that spreadsheet up soon and if anybody has been able to get any better results on the ones I have marked as having problems or completely unplayable on a Pi Zero I'd love to hear what you did to get it working. :)
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@used2berx Did you ever try the emulators built from source? Also, did you try fceumm?
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@darksavior I didn't try them from source.
Yeah, for NES I used fceumm. I've got a 100% working rate on 2,118 unique titles for NES and FDS games between lr-nestopia, lr-fceumm and lr-quicknes. The issue here is with SNES emulation. I knew it wouldn't be 100% going into it, and I'm actually pretty pleased with the success rate I've seen so far. Really, the only ones that I'm thinking anybody would miss that don't work on a PI Zero so far are the ones I've mentioned above. Hopefully that keeps holding true as I test more.
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Finished the synopsis/gameslist.xml game info for all US, EU, Japan, Super Scope and Special Releases. (These are the only things I'm working on until much later whenever I get around to working on a full SNES collection). 848 titles here.
Still hovering right around 280 or so games tested. Going to begin testing the rest of the games today. This work takes quite a while, so I don't know when it will be completed. I will try to ensure the spreadsheet is ready to go live and begin a new topic on the SNES portion of the Rx2.0 collection when it's ready.
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Does anybody know if you can control Mario Paint with the controller in any of the Pi emulators and how you would do it? It seems that it shouldn't have any problems playing in lr-snes9x2002, but I don't know how to control it. Thanks :)
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
Does anybody know if you can control Mario Paint with the controller in any of the Pi emulators and how you would do it?
You can map mouse movement to either a thumbstick or dpad using xboxdrv. I took a quick look for a dpad ROM hack, similar to 'Mario & Wario', but I didn't see anything. I wouldn't recommend such a thing anyway due to the lack of fine control, but I have tried it using xboxdrv and it does work.
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@mediamogul Thanks. I'll have to look into it. I might just put a remark in the spreadsheet for now that it should work if you set up xboxdrv with it. Is there a handy guide for how to do this?
Oh... and will it work normally if you plug in a mouse? I might just recommend doing that instead of setting up the D-Pad with an external controller.
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Let me just say, this thread has been incredibly helpful to me. I'm currently building a zero to use in a Freeplay Zero build. So far, all cores are running full speed for me on 4.3, with frame delay set for the best control experience.
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@r4l Glad to help. Thanks for confirmation that 4.3 works better for you as well.
Overall, the Pi Zero with 4.3 works very well, but you will notice that it has its limitations when actually testing out all the games.
For the NES I managed to get 100% compatibility with it. SNES hasn't been as kind, sadly. I'd say about 80% of them are running damn near perfect, with another 10% running at an acceptable rate as to be enjoyable. The other 10% are either completely unplayable with a Pi Zero or suffer from enough lag and audio stutter that they would not be enjoyable (because of the limitations of which emulators will even play on the Zero, and how slow snes9x2005 and x2010 run for most SNES games).
Sadly, I need to add all 3 Mortal Kombat games to that list. They are playable in lr-snes9x2002 and pisnes, but during the menus there is a strange echo effect that is very annoying. It doesn't seem to effect the actual matches though. Using lr-snes9x2005 seems to fix this issue on all 3 games, but it's too slow and has way too much audio stutter to be enjoyable.
Fortunately, most of the games on the non-working list so far are titles that I don't think anybody would miss, but there are some really great SNES games that you'll never be able to play on a Zero.
Stay tuned for the compatibility lists for SNES and NES when I release them. They also will have compatibility for the Pi 3 eventually, as well as XBox compatibility.
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That is unfortunate (about the games), but at this point it's probably a hardware limitation. 1GHz and 512 RAM aren't much to go about, so I guess Pi zero users are stuck between speed and compatibility. However, can't wait to see this list of yours.
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
Oh... and will it work normally if you plug in a mouse? I might just recommend doing that instead of setting up the D-Pad with an external controller.
A mouse will indeed work and is definitely the way to go with 'Mario Paint'. I thought maybe you had tried it and were looking for alternative options.
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@r4l said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
That is unfortunate (about the games), but at this point it's probably a hardware limitation. 1GHz and 512 RAM aren't much to go about, so I guess Pi zero users are stuck between speed and compatibility. However, can't wait to see this list of yours.
Yeah. I don't think there is much more that can be done to eek out any better performance on the Pi Zero. I was actually surprised that the SNES (and NES as well) required so much power under the hood for good emulation. I just took that for granted with the XBox since there were no problems there. The specs on the Pi Zero are actually "better" than the XBox, but one was a 5 dollar computer put on a tiny chip and the other was a gaming console made by M$ that cost hundreds of dollars when it came out. Shouldn't really be surprised.
Whenever I can afford a Pi 3 I'm going to start testing on that as well for my spreadsheets as I bounce from system to system. I'm not really in a huge hurry since there's still so much to do with the PI Zero.
@mediamogul said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
Oh... and will it work normally if you plug in a mouse? I might just recommend doing that instead of setting up the D-Pad with an external controller.
A mouse will indeed work and is definitely the way to go with 'Mario Paint'. I thought maybe you had tried it and were looking for alternative options.
@mediamogul said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
Oh... and will it work normally if you plug in a mouse? I might just recommend doing that instead of setting up the D-Pad with an external controller.
A mouse will indeed work and is definitely the way to go with 'Mario Paint'. I thought maybe you had tried it and were looking for alternative options.
Oh... cool. I didn't try it. I'd have to take my mouse out of my computer to test it and I just didn't bother with it yet. When I'm all done testing I'll go back and re-test the short list of games that work with a mouse and put the results in the spreadsheet. Thanks.
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@used2berx said in lr-armsnes and Retropie 4.4:
he specs on the Pi Zero are actually "better" than the XBox, but one was a 5 dollar computer put on a tiny chip and the other was a gaming console made by M$ that cost hundreds of dollars when it came out. Shouldn't really be surprised.
yeah the pi zero's cpu is likely quite a bit slower than the xbox's pentium 3. the pi 1 was said to be around the cpu speed of a pentium 2 @ 300MHz, and the pi zero is has the same cpu, just clocked a bit faster.
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Regarding PAL games... Is there any special instructions for playing them in RetroPie? I'm not seeing any RetroArch options for it in Snes9x2002 (1.7.3). Does it automatically detect PAL and adjust?
Thanks. :)
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So far I have 525 US Licensed games tested, as well as 10 EU (PAL) games. Going to be busy the next 5 or so days, so I probably won't get too many done in that time, but then I'll have a few days to wrap up this Pi Zero SNES testing and get the spreadsheet up for everybody.
In the mean time, it would be cool if somebody could point me in the direction of where info on how Pi SNES emulators handle PAL emulation. I was able to find the option to manually change that on a per-rom basis with the NES games, but I couldn't find any RetroArch options for that with SNES.
They actually seem to be playing alright, at least in snes9x2002, so I'm assuming they're handled automatically.
Thanks! :)
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Nice.... one of my buds at another site came back after being away for a while. He's going to put together a script that should manually remove and/or replace a lot of the strange characters that you get in the game descriptions and info that don't display properly in RetroPie or on the XBox. Things like "TM" and the Copyright symbol, any "accent" characters that are common with Japanese and other foreign games, that strange "O" with a line through it that Broderbund uses in there name, etc.
I totally forgot that I had to do this again for the SNES before getting the Zero to my bro. Talk about perfect timing.
Eventually I will incorporate any of this new scripting into the
Synopsis.txt - To - Gamelist.xmlscript that Meleu started and I have tweaked the hell out of. It will be awesome to have this all be a single step in the future. What a time saver that thing already is, and this will make it even better. :)More to come...
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