Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property

[ultrakev9]

Good games disappearing is really the main reason I use emulators. Replacing stolen carts and CDs and stolen game systems is far beyond my wallet's capacity. I've had over a thousand dollars worth of game equipment stolen from me and many are, not completely irreplacable, but extraordinarily expensive.

I was absolutely devastated when my TurboDuo and Saturn got stolen on the same day. Best consoles I ever owned. Every once in a blue moon a re-release of an older game comes out and I'll get it because I know that it's specially tweaked to run on new consoles like Xbox One and PS4. Street Fighter 30th Anniversary is a good example of this. I had Fighting Street for TurboGrafx-16 and I had Street Fighter 2 for SNES twenty-some-odd years ago but they were all pinched while I was out of town and this is back way before the invention of such things as eBay and Amazon.com to pick up another copy, used or new. I've also had copies of the Alpha series and put a zillion quarters in the machines at the arcades.

When the 30th Anniversary edition was released I pre-ordered it and played it for probably six straight hours. This is a situation where I find that this newer version of the older games is more what I'm really looking for and not the old "port" of the arcade like the older systems. I'm happy with being able to spend a reasonable amount of money on all of the games at my fingertips, which honestly is just all arcade versions emulated.

In regards to some of the really old games that are emulated, they just simply are nearly impossible to find and the designers have long since stopped making any money off of them.

I will have to disagree a bit with whatever the "law" states about the IPs in general regarding the use of roms and if I'm completely wrong, so be it. Nearly all of the games I have I absolutely owned or still do. Many of those I paid full price for. Many of them were stolen. I think it's perfectly within my right to obtain a copy of something I already owned and was never properly compensated for.

In regards to Nintendo, they seem like they're once again gearing up to sell all their old catalog of games that are extremely difficult to find or can be found for pennies. I highly doubt that the original creators of the majority of these old games are getting some sort of royalty for their creations. Just seems like another imaginary inflation of a console's game library to make the system look better than it really is.

[barbudreadmon]

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

you know its a 100% good dump that way as well

Actually, there are proof nintendo downloaded at least one of the roms they sale from internet (i think it was on nes mini, it was spotted because of some custom rom header). If they did for one, they probably did for all.

[mediamogul]

@barbudreadmon said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Actually, there are proof nintendo downloaded at least one of the roms they sale from internet (i think it was on nes mini, it was spotted because of some custom rom header). If they did for one, they probably did for all.

Yeah, they were using files from ROM sites for the Wii store releases that had iNES headers. It's funny that we now live in a time where the fans often take better care of these things than their owners. When the movie 'The Goonies' was first to be released on DVD, Warner Brothers went through the Amblin Entertainment (Steven Spielberg) archives to find materials and they couldn't locate the second part to Cyndi Lauper's 'The Goonies 'R' Good Enough' music video. Warner announced online that this was the case and that only the first part would be included. Several fans reached out and offered up their own recordings and if you compare the final product, the second part sourced from the fans is actually of a higher quality.

[lilbud]

I get protecting your copyright and all, but this is BS.

If Nintendo was going to release every game ever on their VC for Switch, this would be fine. (Rumors talk of a Netflix subscription like service for old nintendo games. New games monthly)

But since that is most likely not the case (they'll drip feed games) this is a load of BS.

A lot of these games aren't even available anymore for purchase, and Nintendo isn't seeing profits on these old games due to this.

Relevant:

[PokeEngineer]

@mediamogul said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Yeah, they were using files from ROM sites for the Wii store releases that had iNES headers.

Or, you know, they could've dumped the ROMs themselves and adopted the header to make it easier on them.

[mediamogul]

@pokeengineer said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Or, you know, they could've dumped the ROMs themselves and adopted the header.

Anything's possible, but It's highly unlikely for a number of reasons, both commercially and practically. The format was even becoming/had become obsolete within the pirate community at the time this occured.

[mediamogul]

@pokeengineer

This is an interesting video that suggests Nintendo may not have been the ones responsible to begin with. Minor releases like Virtual Console titles are very likely outsourced to close partner companies. It's possible that Nintendo didn't have access to the ROM at the time it was needed. That might seem a bit unorganized until you consider that the company has consistently shown a lack of knowledge and consideration toward their own historical preservation, leaving such particulars like the exact release date for 'Super Mario Brothers', up for debate among video game historians.

Having dealt with my share of media releases for larger companies, I can add that, after being subcontracted, the larger company all too often becomes dispassionate and uncommunicative. It could be that when the ROM was needed, Nintendo drug their feet, leaving the developers to source the ROM themselves to make deadline.

[grant2258]

@mediamogul said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

@pokeengineer

This is an interesting video that suggests Nintendo may not have been the ones responsible to begin with. Minor releases like Virtual Console titles are very likely outsourced to close partner companies. It's possible that Nintendo didn't have access to the ROM at the time it was needed. That might seem a bit unorganized until you consider that the company has consistently shown a lack of knowledge and consideration toward their own historical preservation, leaving such particulars like the exact release date for 'Super Mario Brothers', up for debate among video game historians.

Having dealt with my share of media releases for larger companies, I can add that, after being subcontracted, the larger company all too often becomes dispassionate and uncommunicative. It could be that when the ROM was needed, Nintendo drug their feet, leaving the developers to source the ROM themselves to make deadline.

I do agree on the preservation part but i see nothing wrong with downloading your own copyright material from the internet regardless if its source. It just goes to show preservation is needed if anything.

[mediamogul]

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

It just goes to show preservation is needed if anything.

Always.

[barbudreadmon]

Even if preservation is needed, and they benefited from it, they closed a website which helps with preservation... Anyway i look at it, it is stupid.

[PokeEngineer]

@mediamogul said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Oh, yeah... I remember watching that a while ago.

[mediamogul]

@barbudreadmon

they closed a website which helps with preservation.

These sites do help preservation as a halo effect, but make no mistake, their primary goal is driving traffic for ad revenue to line their own pockets. That and the fact that there are always five more ROM sites waiting to take the traffic off their hands makes it somewhat difficult for any of this to really matter to me personally.

[PokeEngineer]

@mediamogul said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Yeah, they were using files from ROM sites for the Wii store releases that had iNES headers

Although, if we confirm Nintendo actually did this, it would be kind of hypocritical of them, since they are telling us not to do this and to basically buy more of their stuff. But, in actuality they are doing this behind our backs and selling it back to us. Shady, if you ask me...

But, it's their IPs, they can do what they want to them, I guess...

[grant2258]

@barbudreadmon said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Even if preservation is needed, and they benefited from it, they closed a website which helps with preservation... Anyway i look at it, it is stupid.

this statement is true if you look at one side of the penny and it is valid these games would be lost.

The other side of the coin is this....

There is money everywhere in emulation some call it donations call it adds call it what you like cash is cash.

People that provide a product for free wouldnt accept donations so there is a model for money there as well.

Im not for or against any of these models being better than the other. At least donations are user decidable option and adds are just annoying. Anyway back on track thats emulators back to roms.

Emulators would be useless without them and these are copyrighted weather people like it or not. Its a moral decision people make. Using newer systems that are still on sale brings the side of piracy up.

I dont think this really applies to something you cant buy anymore at that point its preservation.

Downloading something thats still on sale is piracy this is the side people ignore. If companies allow old roms people would just assume all roms are ok.

Its a very complex issue i personally dont think that is one answer but to say rom downloads are just preservation you are ignoring the tail end of the coin that is piracy. Nintendo does this every few years its just what they do nothing has changed thus far.

[grant2258]

@pokeengineer said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

@mediamogul said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Yeah, they were using files from ROM sites for the Wii store releases that had iNES headers

Although, if we confirm Nintendo actually did this, it would be kind of hypocritical of them, since they are telling us not to do this and to basically buy more of their stuff. But, in actuality they are doing this behind our backs and selling it back to us. Shady, if you ask me...

But, it's their IPs, they can do what they want to them, I guess...

how can you steal your own copyrighted code it just the medium that changed?

[PokeEngineer]

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

how can you steal your own copyrighted code it just the medium that changed?

You can't, I just mentioned that they might have downloaded ROMs, yet they tell us not to.

But...

@pokeengineer said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

it's their IPs, they can do what they to them

[grant2258]

@pokeengineer said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

how can you steal your own copyrighted code it just the medium that changed?

You can't, I just mentioned that they might have downloaded ROMs, yet they tell us not to.

But...

@pokeengineer said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

it's their IPs, they can do what they to them

Well they own the copyright they can request people dont take it unfortunately doesnt mean we have to listen. I think there is a big difference downloading Abandonware and something thats on sale and thats how i justify it to myself its probably just excuse to do something i shouldnt really but i can live with it. So i confess i have Abandonware :)

[PokeEngineer]

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

Well they own the copyright they can request people dont take it unfortunately doesnt mean we have to listen.

True.

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

I think there is a big difference downloading Abandonware and something thats on sale

I agree.

@grant2258 said in Nintendo sues LoveROMS.com for infringement of intellectual property:

and thats how i justify it to myself its probably just excuse to do something i shouldnt really but i can live with it. So i confess i have Abandonware :)

Not to be mean, but I doubt that people will care that you have Abandonware, because everyone probably has downloaded it once in their life. I also doubt the FBI would be coming to crash your door anytime soon.

[grant2258]

"Not to be mean, but I doubt that people will care that you have Abandonware, because everyone probably has downloaded it once in their life. I also doubt the FBI would be coming to crash your door anytime soon."

Yea traveling to the uk for a few roms would seem extreme lol. The point im trying to make is I know its questionable (in law but not clear) im not going to make any excuses for what I do. I enjoy playing the games i played when i was younger that are no longer on sale

[ultrakev9]

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine earlier this afternoon who was telling me his son bought a Wii at a flea market but it wouldn't load discs. So, he bought a tri-screw screwdriver set for $15 and they took it apart, blah, blah. Long story short; they got the system running again and his son now ~essentially~ got a great deal on a console.

I offered that he could have fixed the system for nothing if he used a couple small flat-head screwdrivers and then after removing all the tri-screws he could just replace them with regular phillips head screws. He's a car guy and knew this was a good solution but wanted his son to make the decisions himself. Not a problem.

The point I make is that the extra effort would have been a tough choice but the end result would have been worth it. That's how I see emulation of old roms. I don't condone actively emulating current systems and stealing image files so you can save $20 on a digital download. I think it's great that people are trying to emulate systems on current PCs but I will draw a line in the sand when it comes to newer systems. Give it ten years and somehow the "Raspberry Pi 5 A+" will be half the current size and easily emulate PS2, PS3, Xbox and Xbox 360 with 10 fps on Xbox One and PS4. It's just a matter of time. Emulation Station will be mostly automated even more than it already is.

In regards to emulation: the amount of effort generally required to get roms and consoles working in an alien environment is extremely tedious many times. The amount of effort required to go after websites for hosting 30 year old games that have long since been abandoned by game companies that haven't existed in many cases for 25 years that were made by people that have retired 10-15 years ago and have seen very little money for their effort is astonishing. Nintendo got really lucky with their original NES and later with the SNES. They then had a slew of missteps and slightly recovered from their own foolishness with DS, 3DS and the Wii. WiiU and Switch are classic examples (at least as far as I'm concerned) of more Nintendo missteps.

A relatively small handful of people are trying to keep these old games from retiring in to obscurity. I do it with games and game music. Emulators and roms are kind of like old vinyl records. Getting and keeping working copies of history is extremely difficult sometimes. We're all like unpaid librarians of game history.

Of course, there's some of us that just like old games and the nostalgia and don't give a crap what Nintendo does.