Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls

grant2258

@Clyde said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!

you would think so the code would need updated uses static defined maps. I do agree more flexibility is needed but the original option should remain you map the button the way they are superposed to be.

ie

123
XYL
BAR
456

works for most games if you want to map a game manually for now or swap the buttons you can do it per game not like its impossible at the moment. Some people may prefare this way it is now fair. Forcing auto swaps on people isint a good thing should be optional or you end up with an arcade panel that mapped like a gamepad or the user has no idea where button 3 is when it changes from game to game.

Its easy enough to swap the 123 456 rows for now with ra remaps for now.
The code would need changed to swap this automatically because of teh way its done right now

Clyde

@grant2258 I just thought that a "triangle" option next to "gamepad", "gamepad classic" etc. would be a nice addition to set 3-button games quickly to the triangle mapping. It shouldn't anger people if it's not set as default.

Another way would be to add an additional option that works in accord with the "6 button" preset, setting it either to "normal"

123
456

or "triangle"

426
153

Again, that is only an idea to speed up the setup of 3-button games to a triangle. It's not really important.

grant2258

I do agree with what you are saying its just not do easy to implement in the code atm.

Clyde

@grant2258 Ah, good. I wasn't sure if I did understand you correctly. :)

Clyde

@grant2258 I like the current presets very much, by the way. The "gamepad classic" works for me for my upright cabinet's six buttons in most 1-3 button games perfectly, because I like to have button 1+2 on the lower left, whereas the "6 button" preset makes setting up Street Fighter type games very quick and easy.

grant2258

to be honest mame would be so much easier to setup it we used it natively instead of trying to interface it into RA. FBA doesnt have this issue because is has no internal remapping at all like mame does.

It feels to me at times we are limiting mame due to the way RA controls work and to integrate them into RA. Marks done a good job of meeting half way but RA has no where near the flexibility that mame tab menu has. The problem is if we remap in mame it will mess with the ra side of controls so what do you do just limit it thats all you can do atm

Amplifuzz

Here's my proposal for the "6 button triangle" layout: 3 button games on snes layouts should auto-snap to something like this:

2 2 1
1 3 3

The rationale is that on a lot of arcade cabinets the top and bottom rows are offset from each other, sometimes to the left, other times to the right and this layout accomodates all setups regardless of the slant.

like this:

2__2__1
__1__3__3

or this:

__2__2__1
1__3__3

In fact this setup with the aligned rows

x 2 x
1 x 3

is indeed suboptimal and way different from the arcade experience, because the triangle is way too spaced. Having offset rows with this layout allows for a truer "arcade triangle" vibe. It would also work great on modern ergonomic curved layouts.

What do you guys think?

grant2258

well this is my take on it

aligns close enough to play a game

as far as i know fba is doing a below i could be wrong for 1 - 4 buttons

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12

grant2258

the problem with the triangle is everyone sets there buttons up differently with spacing ect that why 3 in a row works

personally my buttons are shaped like your fingers for comfort like here

https://github.com/grant2258/mame2003-plus-libretro/blob/master/metadata/wipcontrols/10PANEL.png

grant2258

ive started work on fixing the rows to be

456
123

on the mappings this is something that need to be done for a while and it comes up in every conversation.

Ive updated the diagrams and the actual maps. I just need to fix the sf2 to map like it should to the jamma standard so punches and kicks are in the right rows.

Once this is done ill put a pull request in. I wont be mapping arcade panels like gamepad for 1 to 4 buttons the maps we will have will be like this.

https://github.com/grant2258/mame2003-plus-libretro/tree/input_fix/metadata/wipcontrols

ill give you a shout when this is complete should get it done today hopefully

markwkidd

It seems like my dream of synchronized control layouts between MAME 2003-Plus and FB Alpha was never going to be possible. It was a beautiful dream.

Now that I know it is impossible to have 1:1 symmetry with FB Alpha, I find myself revisiting which of the MAME 2003-Plus layouts should be set as the default. (Grant has been mentioning this in the past but I have been holding onto the impossible dream.)

The RetroPad is an abstraction modeled on the SNES layout and the DualShock layout. Is the current MAME 2003-Plus default layout of "Gamepad" an appropriate choice for a DualShock-style gamepad?

grant2258

@markwkidd nothing major is changing for us in all honesty basically an arcade panel should be like this.

456
123

we mapped

123
456

to get the correct mapping for sf2 all ive done is change the mapping to what it should be and ill update the sf2 to map right to the jamma standard.

This is all transparent to the user the physical mapping is still the same. Its just the rows will match up right when im done.

The good news is out physical mappings are the same as fba.

An arcade panel shouldnt be changing shape like a controller if you want that familiar 4 quad shape pick the the gamepad classic profile for 1 - 4 player games .

if you want an arcade panel use which ever one of the 3 that suits your setup

markwkidd

Thanks, that's helpful and I greatly appreciate the diagrams you've made.

It does seem like "Classic" is a little more suitable to the PSX/SNES type gamepad (ie the RetroPad abstraction), so maybe that should be the default for the core and then folks with arcade controls can use the diagrams to pick their layout.

grant2258

agree classic should be the default have said that for a while. I need to test these layouts and do the sf2 updates not pushing any of this without testing.

basically as far as gamepads go.

gamepad (modern on alpha) is a sf2 fight stick layout that works on a modern controller is ok for sf2 on a gamepad pretty much useless for anything else

classic is what you want for games in general for a modern controller.

again 6 button is the snes pad layout for sf2 pretty much only useful for you guessed it sf2.

Clyde

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

to get the correct mapping for sf2 all ive done is change the mapping to what it should be and ill update the sf2 to map right to the jamma standard.

Please excuse the question if I misunderstand something: What about the other SF-type games other than SF2? Wouldn't that break their button layout?

That said, I appreciate the change, because if I do understand it correctly, it will put button 1-3 on the lower row of the typical 6-button grid, which I prefer in general.

May I ask if there are plans to include a diagram for Gamepad Classic in your repo?

grant2258

what other 6 button games are you referring too? This is only cps 6 button games that are mapped wrong against jamma specs afaik. Classic is not an arcade diagram there is no need to include a diagram for it would cause confusion. Ill need to finish these updates tomorrow hopefully.

ill give you a list here for it though.

JOYPAD_B: BUTTON1
JOYPAD_Y: BUTTON3
JOYPAD_X: BUTTON4
JOYPAD_A: BUTTON2
JOYPAD_L: BUTTON5
JOYPAD_R: BUTTON6
JOYPAD_L2:BUTTON7
JOYPAD_R2:BUTTON8
JOYPAD_L3:BUTTON9
JOYPAD_R3:BUTTON10

grant2258

ill go through the 6 button games and have a lookskie as whats going on

grant2258

Well The thing is jamma officially only supports 2 players and 3 buttons. This is the standard. The extra buttons are handled through a kick panel.

If you plug double dragon into a sf2 can the buttons will be at the top because that is the way the jamma buttons are mapped in the on the control panel.

technically speaking the fix is pretty easy for this is easy as far as mame is concerned.

if a game is 1 - 3 buttons use the bottom row

when a game is more than 3 buttons you need to apply a kick harness type emulation to the arcade panel to set it to your button layout.

lets say for argument sake you setup to a standard physical setup for the panel so all your 1 - 3 button games use .

456
123

all 1 - 3 buttons would need no processing.

But for sf2 you would need to say look the rows are wrong compared to your physical setup on the sf2 arcade machine. On our panel the 123 buttons are at bottom (jamma standard) and on the sf2 machine they are at the top. so you would need to swap the rows for sf2.

This is perfectly acceptable to change on an arcade panel and is doable the problem mame can handle this with controller files based on your layout or cusomizing inputs on gamename.

The problem is if you do this it wont map nice with RA function of what this button does mark added. We can add rules for arcade panels in ra itself per game when needed but the input code would need re written because its in a define instead of a structure that we cant change I never undserstood why it was done this way.

@markwkidd here is an example of what we could do

https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/blob/7aec74d3109d8707a933d6178174d2afbd99d35d/src/mame2003/mame2003.c#L1895-L1959

but since you want ra to handle the input instead of the mame internal system we cant use this because the information would be wrong in the input needles.

Clyde

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

what other 6 button games are you referring too?

Mainly all the other SF games, I'll have to check how non-SF fighting games with six button do behave with the different button presets.

The thing that confuses me is that you keep mentioning only SF2 and no other SF or other 6-button games. Is it really only an issue with this part of the SF series?

Classic is not an arcade diagram there is no need to include a diagram for it would cause confusion.

At the moment, I am confused. :) In what way is Gamepad Classic different from the other diagrams that makes it not a diagram?

ill give you a list here for it though.

Thanks, I'll look into it when I'm back home.

And also thanks for your detailed Jamma explanations.

grant2258

classic is a controller only ie xbox360 psx orsome other modern controller.

the other layouts are for 6 button games/ arcade panels.

Also as far as sf2 goes its because modern is xbox fight stick layout for sf2 . Once you understand what jamma is and how you add extra buttons its easy to understand.

should enlighten you a little.

The way mame is setup atm we cant change maps without big code changes that i really dont feel like doing tbh