How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide

k0st1x

@meleu said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

These hours would be better spent reading the first post of this topic and the RetroPie's Managing ROMs wiki page. :-)

As far as I know, very few people read the documentation first. it would be convenient to have more games to work "out of the box" (meaning mame2010).

You think it because you have the romset that works in lr-mame2010 (0.139). This is not the case for everyone.
...
...so mame2010 was the only one that was ever going to work for you.

This is true. and I also want to think like the majority - for example MetalSlug - this is a major game got NeoGeo arcade and it is not working out-of-the-box : ( .
if I was doing something non-standard (for example, to write a new emulator and have tried to register it in the RetroPie-Setup script), I would not have come to this forum.
I came here with the end-user scenario, which I have encountered.

then what's the point of us setting a default?

More games may be running by default. This can be the improvement for the major version of RetroPie - modern soft used by the defaults, but older soft can be installed manually.

mame2010 (and later versions of mame) have more accurate emulation that means games perform worse than in older versions of mame....
aside from that, the mame2010 core is incredibly experimental and misses many important features. it only supports 2 players, for example.

thank you for really detailed and clear description!

and pi1/0 to mame4all

Guys who support the RetroPie, why to support pi0/pi1 in the new versions of retropie? users with pi0/pi1 can install prev version of retropie and all default settings will be optimized for them.

I don't want to holy-war here, I just want to understand the direction of development and product support.
what is your opinion about it?

dankcushions

@k0st1x you're missing my point. you happened to download a 0.139 set (which would only work in mame2010), but someone else could happen to download a 0.78 set (only works in mame2003), or someone else could download a 0.56 set (works in nothing in retropie), etc. if people are randomly downloading sets, how can we support that?

Guys who support the RetroPie, why to support pi0/pi1 in the new versions of retropie? users with pi0/pi1 can install prev version of retropie and all default settings will be optimized for them.

why not? there are separate image downloads for pi0/pi1 and pi2/3 so different defaults can be used. i don't see any negative in supporting more systems...

k0st1x

you happened to download a 0.139 set (which would only work in mame2010), but someone else could happen to download a 0.78 set (only works in mame2003), or someone else could download a 0.56 set (works in nothing in retropie), etc. if people are randomly downloading sets, how can we support that?

I thought that mame2010 is fully backward compatible with mame2003 games. even if it has 95% backward compatibility, mame2003 can be replaced by mame2010.
@dankcushions can you confirm that mame2010 is not compatible with some mame2003-games?

dankcushions

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

you happened to download a 0.139 set (which would only work in mame2010), but someone else could happen to download a 0.78 set (only works in mame2003), or someone else could download a 0.56 set (works in nothing in retropie), etc. if people are randomly downloading sets, how can we support that?

I thought that mame2010 is fully backward compatible with mame2003 games. even if it has 95% backward compatibility, mame2003 can be replaced by mame2010.
@dankcushions can you confirm that mame2010 is not compatible with some mame2003-games?

no it's not. i'd say it's likely to be compatible with closer to zero mame2003 games.

suprjami

@k0st1x said:

I thought that mame2010 is fully backward compatible with mame2003 games. even if it has 95% backward compatibility, mame2003 can be replaced by mame2010.
@dankcushions can you confirm that mame2010 is not compatible with some mame2003-games?

No, no MAME version is written to be backwards compatible.

A given ROM definition may change completely, slightly, or not at all from version to version. The change may be a filename within the ROM, a checksum of a file within the ROM, a re-arranging of the ROM contents into less/more files, or a complete re-ordering of the parent/clone relationship within a game.

Using 0.139 ROMs in 0.78, you are relying on sheer luck that a ROM hasn't changed between versions. For some games this may work, but for many games it will fail.

k0st1x

@dankcushions and @suprjami ,
and again, really thank you for the detailed descriptions

rbaker

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

As far as I know, very few people read the documentation first. it would be convenient to have more games to work "out of the box"

As far as I know.....come on. The documentation is detailed, updated, accurate and easy to follow. I used it to get a full arcade bartop working from nothing and I only ever had to ask one question and that turned out to be a bug that got solved by @meleu . To come on here and make these statements having not read it is just bonkers. When you say more games to work "out of the box" - it's meaningless. Games can never work out of the box because the developers do not know what games you have got that you want to get working on which emulator. It's up to you get the correct set of roms in the first instance by reading the instructions before becoming the 65535th person to post "Hey I got roms but none work". I mean, you have actually posted it at the end of @Floob's help guide. Surely you read this thread before typing and must have thought, hey I can't be typing this, i'll look crazy. But you did type it. How?

UDb23

Quite interesting: @Floob invests time in writing this help guide (that I think will be really useful for new retropie users) to avoid people asking same questions all the time...
and he gets people asking those questions in this 3D !

It is true that Retropie is not easy to use at the beginning because you have to configure different things to make it work the way you want (and you do need to document yourself on how to do it)
BUT this is also Retropie's strenght point: it gives you some many possibilities to create the exact configuration YOU like.
And what about the satisfaction you get when you make things work finally :-)
To me customizing it is a major part of the fun of using Retropie.

Not forgetting the kindness and will to help of the people in this forum.

k0st1x

@rbaker said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

Games can never work out of the box because the developers do not know what games you have got that you want to get working on which emulator.

but retropie has specific emulators set in "basic setup".
in my opinion, each platforms has its "top games" and it will be great if retropie as end-user-platform (not for developers who will build applications with "make") will support most valuable games out-of-the-box.
so it is possible to get list of emulators and its "top-games".

I did not come to complain (I have already passed this quest), but said that a set of arcade emulators could be updated. I do not expect that people just do as I want.
let it be the response for statistics and when it is aggregated enough then you can think to update the mame emulator.

meleu

@k0st1x what we are trying to say is that MAME is complex. It will never work out-of-the-box in any platform (unless those pirated copies with emulators AND the correct romset in the same package, but RetroPie doesn't come with pirated ROMs and we do NOT share links to download them here).

You would understand why it is complex by simply reading the first post of this very same forum topic.

rbaker

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

will support most valuable games out-of-the-box

Ok, think of it this way. You want support for popular games out of the box. You have it right now. You first select the game. You then acquire the correct romset according to the retropie wiki. You then install the correct emulator for your choices. You drop in the roms and you are good to go. You stated earlier that you "spent about 3 hours: try some different bios's, different roms and different emulators (lr-mame2003, lr-mame4all)", why did you do this? It lead you to frustration and then come on here to say that retropie is out of date. You still think it doesn't work out of the box. As I said, it can never truly work in this way but in my opinion, it is virtually working completely out of the box. Have you read this: http://choccyhobnob.com/articles/demystifying-mame-roms/ It's great. If you do, you will understand more.

k0st1x

@meleu & @rbaker ,
As a newby user of retropie, I am very glad with active community that will describe their position with arguing and attaching links to documentation

meleu

@k0st1x On other hand the guys who spend their time writing and sharing their knowledge to help the newbies may not become too glad when someone asks questions immediately below the answers.

k0st1x

@meleu said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

@k0st1x On other hand the guys who spend their time writing and sharing their knowledge to help the newbies may not become too glad when someone asks questions immediately below the answers.

but this is a real life - nobody wants to spend hours reading documentation BEFORE trying to use a new device / new application / new product as "ad-hoc".
For example, previously on my bananapi & RPi was installed android and that was simple.
I heard about retropie from some youtube video and I go and install it, thats all - like with android.
And this is everywhere - i am working in corp that create a product with documentation & support. very few users who read documentation before some issue occurred. and this is normal.

rbaker

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

nobody wants to spend hours reading documentation

I spent about 30 mins before Mame was fully operational. I agree that some people may not read the instructions and this forum proves that many do not. However, you cannot decide to ignore the instructions AND post questions and complaints. It makes no sense, especially if those questions appear in the same thread as the answers.

meleu

@k0st1x

Actually I totally agree with this statement:

nobody wants to spend hours reading documentation BEFORE trying to use a new device / new application / new product as "ad-hoc".

I am this kind of person. But after I face some problem I need to get some instructions.

What make us really impressed is you asking:

"why Retropie 'out of the box' have two old versions of mame, instead of worked mame2010? Is there any reason for this?"

While in the first post of this very same forum topic we have answers for questions like:

Why does RetroPie come with more than one arcade emulator?
How do I choose which arcade emulator I want to use?
What are romsets?
Which is the best romset version to use?
Are romset versions backward compatible?

dankcushions

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

so it is possible to get list of emulators and its "top-games".

i think you still don't understand the issue. let's say you have a mame rom for the game 1942. 1942 (the game) is supported in (I would guess) almost every version of mame dating back to to 1997, however your downloaded 1942 rom is tied to a specific version of mame. any version of mame (be that mame2010, or mame2003) is looking for a specific set of files in the 1942.zip, as these files change often across mame versions.

so it's not a matter of getting a version of mame that supports 1942, it's about getting the specific 1942.zip for that specific version of mame. this is why we deal in romsets with mame - you download the entire set of valid for the version of mame you are trying to use.

hopefully you now understand that there is no benefit in us choosing mame2010 as the default over mame2003, as if you're downloading random roms from random sets, you will hit the same kind of issues regardless.

k0st1x

@dankcushions said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

i 1942 rom is tied to a specific version of mame

in my practice, I have not seen a single game, but with different versions of the roms (but i know about roms with dependencies), so it looks to me like a made-up case.

in an attempt to reach audiences you see that you can not cover 100% of different arcade games, because you does not see the difference in emulators (one specific still do not support all games).

Guys, thanks to this thread I got enough new mame specific knowledge.

dankcushions

@k0st1x said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

@dankcushions said in How to use MAME with RetroPie - Help Guide:

i 1942 rom is tied to a specific version of mame

in my practice, I have not seen a single game, but with different versions of the roms (but i know about roms with dependencies), so it looks to me like a made-up case.

i don't fully understand you here, but here's the 1942 example in the real-world. the extracts below are from the .dat files of some different mame versions in retropie, showing what these versions of mame are looking for in the 1942.zip.

here's 1942.zip in mame4all (mame 0.37b5):

	<game name="1942">
		<description>1942 (set 1)</description>
		<year>1984</year>
		<manufacturer>Capcom</manufacturer>
		<rom name="03k_sb-8.bin" size="256" crc="f6fad943"/>
		<rom name="06d_sb-4.bin" size="256" crc="4858968d"/>
		<rom name="08e_sb-5.bin" size="256" crc="93ab8153"/>
		<rom name="09e_sb-6.bin" size="256" crc="8ab44f7d"/>
		<rom name="1-c11.bin" size="16384" crc="bd87f06b"/>
		<rom name="1-f2.bin" size="8192" crc="6ebca191"/>
		<rom name="1-n3a.bin" size="16384" crc="40201bab"/>
		<rom name="1-n4.bin" size="16384" crc="a60ac644"/>
		<rom name="1-n5.bin" size="16384" crc="835f7b24"/>
		<rom name="1-n6.bin" size="8192" crc="821c6481"/>
		<rom name="1-n7.bin" size="16384" crc="5df525e1"/>
		<rom name="10e_sb-7.bin" size="256" crc="f4ade9a4"/>
		<rom name="2-a1.bin" size="8192" crc="3884d9eb"/>
		<rom name="2-a2.bin" size="8192" crc="999cf6e0"/>
		<rom name="2-a3.bin" size="8192" crc="8edb273a"/>
		<rom name="2-a4.bin" size="8192" crc="3a2726c3"/>
		<rom name="2-a5.bin" size="8192" crc="1bd3d8bb"/>
		<rom name="2-a6.bin" size="8192" crc="658f02c4"/>
		<rom name="2-l1.bin" size="16384" crc="2528bec6"/>
		<rom name="2-l2.bin" size="16384" crc="f89287aa"/>
		<rom name="2-n1.bin" size="16384" crc="024418f8"/>
		<rom name="2-n2.bin" size="16384" crc="e2c7e489"/>
		<rom name="f01_sb-0.bin" size="256" crc="6047d91b"/>
	</game>

here's 1942.zip in mame2003 (mame 0.78):

	<game name="1942">
		<description>1942 (set 1)</description>
		<year>1984</year>
		<manufacturer>Capcom</manufacturer>
		<rom name="01d_sb-2.bin" size="256" crc="8bb8b3df" sha1="49de2819c4c92057fedcb20425282515d85829aa"/>
		<rom name="01m_sb-9.bin" size="256" crc="4921635c" sha1="aee37d6cdc36acf0f11ff5f93e7b16e4b12f6c39"/>
		<rom name="02d_sb-3.bin" size="256" crc="3b0c99af" sha1="38f30ac1e48632634e409f328ee3051b987de7ad"/>
		<rom name="03k_sb-8.bin" size="256" crc="f6fad943" sha1="b0a24ea7805272e8ebf72a99b08907bc00d5f82f"/>
		<rom name="06d_sb-4.bin" size="256" crc="4858968d" sha1="20b5dbcaa1a4081b3139e7e2332d8fe3c9e55ed6"/>
		<rom name="08e_sb-5.bin" size="256" crc="93ab8153" sha1="a792f24e5c0c3c4a6b436102e7a98199f878ece1"/>
		<rom name="09e_sb-6.bin" size="256" crc="8ab44f7d" sha1="f74680a6a987d74b3acb32e6396f20e127874149"/>
		<rom name="1-c11.bin" size="16384" crc="bd87f06b" sha1="821f85cf157f81117eeaba0c3cf0337eac357e58"/>
		<rom name="1-f2.bin" size="8192" crc="6ebca191" sha1="0dbddadde54a0ab66994c4a8726be05c6ca88a0e"/>
		<rom name="1-n3a.bin" size="16384" crc="40201bab" sha1="4886c07a4602223c21419118e10aadce9c99fa5a"/>
		<rom name="1-n4.bin" size="16384" crc="a60ac644" sha1="f37862db3cf5e6cc9ab3276f3bc45fd629fd70dd"/>
		<rom name="1-n5.bin" size="16384" crc="835f7b24" sha1="24b66827f08c43fbf5b9517d638acdfc38e1b1e7"/>
		<rom name="1-n6.bin" size="8192" crc="821c6481" sha1="06becb6bf8b4bde3a458098498eecad566a87711"/>
		<rom name="1-n7.bin" size="16384" crc="5df525e1" sha1="70cd2910e2945db76bd6ebfa0ff09a5efadc2d0b"/>
		<rom name="10e_sb-7.bin" size="256" crc="f4ade9a4" sha1="62ad31d31d183cce213b03168daa035083b2f28e"/>
		<rom name="2-a1.bin" size="8192" crc="3884d9eb" sha1="5cbd9215fa5ba5a61208b383700adc4428521aed"/>
		<rom name="2-a2.bin" size="8192" crc="999cf6e0" sha1="5b8b685038ec98b781908b92eb7fb9506db68544"/>
		<rom name="2-a3.bin" size="8192" crc="8edb273a" sha1="85fdd4c690ed31e6396e3c16aa02140ee7ea2d61"/>
		<rom name="2-a4.bin" size="8192" crc="3a2726c3" sha1="187c92ef591febdcbd1d42ab850e0cbb62c00873"/>
		<rom name="2-a5.bin" size="8192" crc="1bd3d8bb" sha1="ef4dce605eb4dc8035985a415315ec61c21419c6"/>
		<rom name="2-a6.bin" size="8192" crc="658f02c4" sha1="f087d69e49e38cf3107350cde18fcf85a8fa04f0"/>
		<rom name="2-l1.bin" size="16384" crc="2528bec6" sha1="29f7719f18faad6bd1ec6735cc24e69168361470"/>
		<rom name="2-l2.bin" size="16384" crc="f89287aa" sha1="136fff6d2a4f48a488fc7c620213761459c3ada0"/>
		<rom name="2-n1.bin" size="16384" crc="024418f8" sha1="145b8d5d6c8654cd090955a98f6dd8c8dbafe7c1"/>
		<rom name="2-n2.bin" size="16384" crc="e2c7e489" sha1="d4b5d575c021f58f6966df189df94e08c5b3621c"/>
		<rom name="f01_sb-0.bin" size="256" crc="6047d91b" sha1="1ce025f9524c1033e48c5294ee7d360f8bfebe8d"/>
		<rom name="k06_sb-1.bin" size="256" crc="712ac508" sha1="5349d722ab6733afdda65f6e0a98322f0d515e86"/>
	</game>

and finally, in mame2010 (mame 0.139)

	<game name="1942" sourcefile="1942.c">
		<description>1942 (Revision B)</description>
		<year>1984</year>
		<manufacturer>Capcom</manufacturer>
		<rom name="sb-0.f1" size="256" crc="6047d91b" sha1="1ce025f9524c1033e48c5294ee7d360f8bfebe8d"/>
		<rom name="sb-1.k6" size="256" crc="712ac508" sha1="5349d722ab6733afdda65f6e0a98322f0d515e86"/>
		<rom name="sb-2.d1" size="256" crc="8bb8b3df" sha1="49de2819c4c92057fedcb20425282515d85829aa"/>
		<rom name="sb-3.d2" size="256" crc="3b0c99af" sha1="38f30ac1e48632634e409f328ee3051b987de7ad"/>
		<rom name="sb-4.d6" size="256" crc="4858968d" sha1="20b5dbcaa1a4081b3139e7e2332d8fe3c9e55ed6"/>
		<rom name="sb-5.e8" size="256" crc="93ab8153" sha1="a792f24e5c0c3c4a6b436102e7a98199f878ece1"/>
		<rom name="sb-6.e9" size="256" crc="8ab44f7d" sha1="f74680a6a987d74b3acb32e6396f20e127874149"/>
		<rom name="sb-7.e10" size="256" crc="f4ade9a4" sha1="62ad31d31d183cce213b03168daa035083b2f28e"/>
		<rom name="sb-8.k3" size="256" crc="f6fad943" sha1="b0a24ea7805272e8ebf72a99b08907bc00d5f82f"/>
		<rom name="sb-9.m11" size="256" crc="4921635c" sha1="aee37d6cdc36acf0f11ff5f93e7b16e4b12f6c39"/>
		<rom name="sr-01.c11" size="16384" crc="bd87f06b" sha1="821f85cf157f81117eeaba0c3cf0337eac357e58"/>
		<rom name="sr-02.f2" size="8192" crc="6ebca191" sha1="0dbddadde54a0ab66994c4a8726be05c6ca88a0e"/>
		<rom name="sr-08.a1" size="8192" crc="3884d9eb" sha1="5cbd9215fa5ba5a61208b383700adc4428521aed"/>
		<rom name="sr-09.a2" size="8192" crc="999cf6e0" sha1="5b8b685038ec98b781908b92eb7fb9506db68544"/>
		<rom name="sr-10.a3" size="8192" crc="8edb273a" sha1="85fdd4c690ed31e6396e3c16aa02140ee7ea2d61"/>
		<rom name="sr-11.a4" size="8192" crc="3a2726c3" sha1="187c92ef591febdcbd1d42ab850e0cbb62c00873"/>
		<rom name="sr-12.a5" size="8192" crc="1bd3d8bb" sha1="ef4dce605eb4dc8035985a415315ec61c21419c6"/>
		<rom name="sr-13.a6" size="8192" crc="658f02c4" sha1="f087d69e49e38cf3107350cde18fcf85a8fa04f0"/>
		<rom name="sr-14.l1" size="16384" crc="2528bec6" sha1="29f7719f18faad6bd1ec6735cc24e69168361470"/>
		<rom name="sr-15.l2" size="16384" crc="f89287aa" sha1="136fff6d2a4f48a488fc7c620213761459c3ada0"/>
		<rom name="sr-16.n1" size="16384" crc="024418f8" sha1="145b8d5d6c8654cd090955a98f6dd8c8dbafe7c1"/>
		<rom name="sr-17.n2" size="16384" crc="e2c7e489" sha1="d4b5d575c021f58f6966df189df94e08c5b3621c"/>
		<rom name="srb-03.m3" size="16384" crc="d9dafcc3" sha1="a089a9bc55fb7d6d0ac53f91b258396d5d62677a"/>
		<rom name="srb-04.m4" size="16384" crc="da0cf924" sha1="856fbb302c9a4ec7850a26ab23dab8467f79bba4"/>
		<rom name="srb-05.m5" size="16384" crc="d102911c" sha1="35ba1d82bd901940f61d8619273463d02fc0a952"/>
		<rom name="srb-06.m6" size="8192" crc="466f8248" sha1="2ccc8fc59962d3001fbc10e8d2f20a254a74f251"/>
		<rom name="srb-07.m7" size="16384" crc="0d31038c" sha1="b588eaf6fddd66ecb2d9832dc197f286f1ccd846"/>
	</game>

as you can see, they are all different, so a random 1942.zip downloaded from the net will work on one, or likely none of these mame versions.

k0st1x

@dankcushions thanks for the real-world example, now I will know : )