Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie

Folly

@clyde said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@thelostsoul (I think) I understand your point, and I sometimes wonder myself why none of the big players known for suing rom sites (looking at you, Nintendo) didn't take legal action against the Archive yet.

I think everyone will benefit.
That's why the big players are not suing.

I think, these are the reasons :

It will take a lot of commitment/money of the big player to archive everything they have.
In business it always about reducing costs so it's nice someone else does the archiving.
Keeping it safe for generations to come.
If you would like to earn money from your old games, you wouldn't earn the money you have to earn to make in profitable.
Nowadays more and more people are needed in the branche, this way people can look back and learn from it.
When they learned enough they will become the new developpers
It's good advertising : Oh WOW. The did that in the past, I want to have the new stuff from that brand. Or I want to work for them.
As a company you can make use of the open community (marketing, development, open source, programming, etc)
Suing does cost a lot of money and efford.
What will you gain after suing ?
Some "players" don't even exist anymore. If it wasn't archived, all the stuff was gone forever.

mitu

@thelostsoul said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

What if a game company (or anyone else) owning the trademark and copyright of a software that is sold outside of the US, such as other versions from Japan or Germany do not want its software distributed via archive site?

They can request the removal of the content. See:

Clyde

@folly said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Some "players" don't even exist anymore. If it wasn't archived, all the stuff was gone forever.

That's a mistake many adherents of so-called "abandonware" often make. Normally, if a company "vanishes" by shutdown or takeover, any remotely valuable assets will be taken over by others. Of course, some assets may be preserved, others may be thrown away or buried so deeply that they'd never see daylight again, but as a matter of prudence, I would suspect the former by default in absence of evidence to the contrary.

That said, I understand and share the community's pursuit for preservation. I just don't think that it's shared by the copyright holders to an extent that would stop them from suing unauthorized external preservers. One difference I do see, however, between the Archive and other rom sites, is the Archive's popularity among the common internet users. Going against the Archive may be considered unnecessary bad press as long as there are less prestigious "pirate sites".

Dan1300

@mitu I swear according to the site its fine as long as it is for personal use but can't find it again. Will have to dig a bit more.

Sorry for the link.

Dan1300

@mitu For discussion purposes where is a place I can buy the rights to the ROMs?

I didn't find anything outside of the archive site that give an option to buy or use them (unlike other ROM sites). I am all about ensuring people get paid for their time and effort.

mitu

@dan1300 said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@mitu For discussion purposes where is a place I can buy the rights to the ROMs?

What rights are you referring to ? Usage/distribution or re-distribution/modification/performance/etc. ?

I didn't find anything outside of the archive site that give an option to buy or use them (unlike other ROM sites). I am all about ensuring people get paid for their time and effort.

Other 'ROM' sites may be selling them illegally and archive.org doesn't give you any option to buy or use them.
This topic is specifically created so that users find legal avenues to acquire games/ROMS for their own personal use, so this is one place where you can look into.

dankcushions

@dan1300 some roms are available legally (eg, the links in this thread). but you can't 'buy rights' to whatever roms you locate online. even if you could somehow approach a publisher and purchase a license from them directly, most old games do not have active publishers, or may have transferred the rights to who-knows-what holdings company.

it would be nice to just have the 'spotify/netflix of games' where you could get access to vast amounts of legal content through one service, but even that is basically impossible to set up, since the games industry is not like the music/film industry, where there's a few major publishers and existing rights organisations with whom these major deals can be arranged.

i anticipate that nintendo (one of the few active publishers who retain the rights to a vast library of titles) will do this at some point - have a subscription 'virtual console' emulator service on tvs/phones/consoles/etc, permitting access to their entire catalogue. probably not until they've exhausted all other ways of reselling us that content, though ;)

Dan1300

@dankcushions I say 'buy rights' in relation to like when you buy a CD, MP3 or a game disc from lets say Game Stop ect. You are given a copy for personal use.

I wish they would have that service but you know as well as I do that they will drag their feet forever.

Nintendo had put up a few older games in the Store like Super Mario Bros or Resident Evil for example. Maybe they may expand that further and I think they could be working that.

I know for example that PS Store had or has all the Soul Caliburs for purchase and download. Why couldn't we do this for more systems or the Pi. I'd buy all the games for my Pi if offered the chance, even though it may not be console specific or having to go to a bunch of sites to get what you want. I am throwing alot of brain scratchers but then I think this is the biggest issue of this whole thing.

YFZdude

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

i anticipate that nintendo (one of the few active publishers who retain the rights to a vast library of titles) will do this at some point - have a subscription 'virtual console' emulator service on tvs/phones/consoles/etc, permitting access to their entire catalogue. probably not until they've exhausted all other ways of reselling us that content, though ;)

I thought they did this concept with the Switch where you pay a fee for online services and get access to either a rotating selection of games or the entirety of whatever they choose to have in the library. Nonetheless, it definitely would not be the entire library for every system as we would all wish.

Also, I can't remember the details, but my impression of US copyright laws was that even if you own a game, you can't download the ROM from someone else. I thought there was a legal way of making your own backup copy but distribution or download is likely off the table. Probably similar situation in many countries.

I think this is why the used games market continued to thrive for so many years. Alas, the current trend of games being sold and consumed entirely in digital format makes it unlikely that will survive forever. Is there even an option for selling a console game you purchase from the digital storefront?

thelostsoul

@yfzdude Owning a copy of a game does not grant anyone a free copy of existing ROM files of this game. First off, when you buy a cartridge (or any other physical media), then you buy this one single particular item. And you get the right to play and do whatever you want with it, including selling and reading its ROMs. You never paid for a digital representation of this game (ROM files), but you are allowed to read the data for yourself. The ROM files for this game are also read/dumped from other cartridges you never paid for. So downloading someone else ROM files means you never get the same game as you paid for and therefore cannot be seen as a "backup".

That is at least the situation is for cartridges and cds and other physical medias for games, at least from my understanding.

themazingness

Due to the Steam sale, I've been able to confirm a few more Piko Interactive games.

Tunnel B1 comes with both Playstation (original) and DOS versions of the game. No renaming is necessary. The Playstation game's .cue and bin files are in the ...\TunnelB1\ps1\game folder.

Radical Rex and Tinhead are SNES games and Brave Battle Saga and Switchblade are Genesis/Mega Drive games. Just browse to the res folder, copy the "game" file, and rename them with the proper extensions (e.g. .smc for SNES and .bin for Mega Drive).

themazingness

Additionally (not by Piko Interactive), Lizard is a homebrew NES/DOS/Windows game for purchase on Steam. The NES and DOS versions must be added as DLC, but the DLC is free.

A Former User

I know I'm late for the party here, but I'd like to mention I agree that there's lots of ways to get ROM's legally, even cartridge dumping is a way to do it, copying cartridge ROM's of games you already have legal whether 2nd hand or kept them since they were factory condition, it doesn't matter, both won't violate the terms of the license, it's only when you give or sell them to other people it becomes a problem.

Virtual Console is a good way to do it but unfortunately those are encrypted, meaning they will not work on third party emulators. Sega beat them to the punch on this one and sold their retro games on Steam in DRM free fashion as you had mentioned in this thread, but it is still only for personal use because distributing them without Sega's consent is illegal.

themazingness

I haven't tried it (too many games to play), but I learned about this homebrew Genesis rom for sale that has a demo version to play before you buy it.

Arkagis Revolution: https://arkagis.itch.io/arkagis-revolution?fbclid=IwAR2yKUpMoFAUOxK-Xy7VaTMfZO2m6K6UDuSoaw9vwPWGGnwfRLkG_rDdOjU

Crush

So lately there's being allot of new games released on retro systems, some of them are available in rom format as well.
Ironically allot of Dreamcast devs do not sell them as digital download, even though most DC owners i know, have replaced disc reader with a disc emulator.

Sega:
Xeno Crisis: https://shop.bitmapbureau.com/products/xeno-crisis-sega-mega-drive-genesis-rom-download
Demons of Asteborg: (Not yet released but demo is available) https://demonsofasteborg.com/
VergeWorld: (Not yet released but demo is available) http://retrobones.com/

Dreamcast:
Xeno Crisis: https://shop.bitmapbureau.com/products/xeno-crisis-sega-dreamcast-rom-download
Hydra Castle Labyrinth: (Free): https://www.obscuregamers.com/threads/hydra-castle-labyrinth-new-port.1838/

Vectrex:
You are free to use any official released games, overlays and manuals for non-profit. this does not include third party titles. (more info in post below)

Clyde

@crush said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Vectrex:
You are free to use any official released games, overlays and manuals for non-profit. this does not include third party titles.

Do you have a source for this?

Crush

@clyde https://web.archive.org/web/20071007155940/http://www.vectrexnews.com/faq/vectrex-faq-60.txt

thelostsoul

@crush Out of curiosity I looked it up. The quote in question from https://web.archive.org/web/20071007155940/http://www.vectrexnews.com/faq/vectrex-faq-60.txt:

8.0) Legal issues

8.1) Isn't copying the games by burning EPROMs stealing or violating a
copyright?

If the system is "dead" then no money is lost by making copies of
something which otherwise would never be available. Even so, it is a
fuzzy matter and technically the answer should probably be, "YES."
Fortunately, Smith Engineering [Jay Smith] has given permission to make
copies of all Vectrex related materials (manuals, games, overlays, etc.)
as long as it is not for profit.

The author of the document claims that J. Smith gave permission to make copies. I would like want to see the permission he gave. Even if this is correct, this just means you are given permission to copy (for backup?), not to distribute the copies. Right?

I couldn't find any other related info. So based on this, I doubt that downloading and distributing Vectrex games is gone free. To be honest, I doubt that anything would happen, but from legal perspective is this really correct? The author of the document isn't even the license holder of the subject and he itself is just interpreting the law and gives the answer "probably yes". That's not exactly 100% clear on this topic to me.

Crush

@thelostsoul said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

The author of the document claims that J. Smith gave permission to make copies. I would like want to see the permission he gave. Even if this is correct, this just means you are given permission to copy (for backup?), not to distribute the copies. Right?

It says copy as long as it is not for profit, if this was a legal document it would indeed cover distribution. but like you said it's not from the owner of the rights.

furthermore this doc is from when the Vectrex scene was still very much alive in the 90s, I'm afraid if you require further information on the topic, you'd have to find it on archived forum sites from that era.
I doubt any of the email addresses are still relevant, and whether the written letter of Jay Smith still exists.

This is the info that is available at the moment unfortunately, and people can do with it as they wish, i should have cleared all this up in my original post.
In any event, the info has been shared, without any links to roms.
Hope this helps.

Clyde

@crush Thanks for trying to give as much information as possible.

Please don't take our inquiries as overly pedantic; there are just too many myths, falsities and half-truths out there in such matters. Thus, we (as far as I know @thelostsoul from previous posts) are very sceptical by default if people claim that copyrighted material is free to download, use or copy under more or less specific circumstances. In many cases, its most probably just passed-on misinformation or wishful thinking. The real giveaways tend to be well documented and traceable in my experience.

That said, thanks again for your elaborate, objective, and honest answer.