How to map keys 0-9 for SPACE WARS (0.78)

jonnykesh

@mikemolang You'll see it if you look for it.

caver01

OK, so I could not get the game to run properly under lr-mame2003. It just kept doing random stuff, first with volume, then with other keys bringing up the menu and so on. Very erratic. Of course, I cannot invoke any kind of menu either.

Tried with Advmame and it works nicely. You can even map the game choice keys as you already figured out, but there is no reset key. This is probably not the RESET the machine (F3), but rather a key that was in the middle of the original control panel between player 1 and 2 controls. It looks like this is missing or overlooked in the emulation of this game.

Sound works fine if you have the sample file. You need to put the .zip into the samples directory pointed to in the advmame.rc file, not the wav files.

markwkidd

Would one of you be willing to file a bug report about Space Wars in the mame2003 github repository? URL: https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro/issues

caver01

@markwkidd This goes beyond just 2003. I tried with advmame, and mame2010 and none of them have the reset button.

We would definitely want someone to file a bug for this that understands what that reset does on the actual arcade machine. I could not find a good description of its use, so I have no idea what happens when you press it on the real thing.

jonnykesh

As an aside, this is a cool retro flyer. "Unprecedented realism..."

markwkidd

@caver01 what really caught my eye was this part:

It just kept doing random stuff, first with volume, then with other keys bringing up the menu and so on. Very erratic. Of course, I cannot invoke any kind of menu either.

jonnykesh

@markwkidd Yeah, the slider controls were coming up.

caver01

@markwkidd Oh sorry, yeah that was really weird, right? I did not know what to think about it, and my description was different than others above, so I figured it might be something on my end. Can anyone else confirm the same behavior in lr-mame2003?

Also, my heart isn't in this one--vector in lr-mame2003 is just not cool overall. Everything renders at 640x480 instead of the native resolution of the display, so pushing on this potential bug still won't get me to actually use this version of MAME to run this one.

I'd almost rather push for games like xenophobe, rampage, sarge etc. that all seem stuck at launch.

jonnykesh

@markwkidd Here's a link to a servive manual: https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/S/Space_Wars_Manual.pdf

caver01

@jonnykesh said in How to map keys 0-9 for SPACE WARS (0.78):

As an aside, this is a cool retro flyer. "Unprecedented realism..."

That is pretty funny. 1024x768 resolution is a strange thing to write for a vector game. I understand it to represent the location references from some origin, but I don't think about resolution on a vector game the same way as raster.

One thing that seems so strange to me with the marketing of this game (and sometimes other games) is how the game is actually SPACE WAR but the flyer says SPACE WARS. I can't help but imagine a marketing person at Cinamatronics hell-bent on making the name come as close to STAR WARS as they can, even though the engineers and game designers called it WAR not WARS.

caver01

@jonnykesh said in How to map keys 0-9 for SPACE WARS (0.78):

@markwkidd Here's a link to a servive manual: https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/S/Space_Wars_Manual.pdf

Yes, I read through that last night. Fascinating, but I couldn't find a reference to gameplay and the use of that RESET button.

jonnykesh

@caver01 It's great. I love the way it looks like it was typed on a typewriter. And the explanations they give. You could tell it was not just another commercial product. There is genuine passion there. There would need to be.

jonnykesh

@caver01 Yeah, how many Space _ games were there at that time? I guess it was a lot to do with star wars and big plus space is black and white and very quiet! Everything was Star this or Space that. Gotta put food on the table.

caver01

@jonnykesh Yes, I am always a little amazed at what had to be done at the time so that kids like me could look at a game for 5 seconds and shrug, move on to the next one. I wish more people could see these service manuals and gain a little more appreciation for what was state-of-the-art back in the 70s. We look back and chuckle a little, but these guys were pushing the envelope of what was possible--all for a little revenue one quarter at a time.

markwkidd

#4 on this marquee describes the "reset" button: https://www.arcade-museum.com/images/118/1181242171187.jpg

I can only make out the words "frustrated, etc"

jonnykesh

@markwkidd I have never played the game in a cab, perhaps OP could shed some light on it. AFAIK each player got a limited number of shots and each round lasted from 45 secs to 2 minutes depending on the dip switch settings. I suppose it was a soft reset that accumulated your money / time and allowed you to carry it over to another game.

markwkidd

Actually I did find some more info:

After coining up, players can choose which game options to select and optionally select game modifications using a numeric keypad located above the center of the control panel. There is also a reset button on the center of the control panel for exigent circumstances such as a player missing his ship or if both players are dead in the water. Of course the “aggressive” player, aka the cheater, can hit this button to escape when severely pressed.

http://www.cinematronics.org/space_wars.html

Timed play. The player with the largest number of kills wins. After a kill, the victorious player will wait for 5 seconds before the next round begins. During that time he can kill himself and give the other kill for the other guy. Hitting the reset button will start the next round of battle.

https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9691

jonnykesh

@markwkidd

markwkidd

"Reset" does seem like a pretty important feature of the game, and it doesn't mean 'reset the machine' as one might guess.

mikemolang

@markwkidd said in How to map keys 0-9 for SPACE WARS (0.78):

seem like a pretty important feature of the game, and it doesn't mean 'reset the machine'

Correct! You guys seem to have answered the question already, so just to summarize (by a guy who played this endlessly in his youth on the original hardware).

The reset button kills any players that are alive at the time, and records a kill against them. The game then re-spawns both players to start the next battle. Here is why it is important:

Players can run out of bullets and can run out of fuel. Their ships can also be damaged but not dead, leaving them unable to move. When these things happen, the players can be stuck in a state of limbo, as the game timer clicks away there available playing time.
When a player is killed, the game does not re-spawn the players for 5 seconds. Instead, it shows the explosion and gives you time to punch your brother in the arm, laughing, "HAHHA!!! GOT YOU AGAIN!!!" But since the game is time based, to save a few seconds my brother and I would usually hit reset as soon as one or the other was wounded or killed so that time was not wasted. Sure, that meant that the score was not very useful to us, but we all knew who was really the better player, anyway. ;)
I am not certain if a reset was required to change the game mode and options, or not.

Best,
MML