Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls

grant2258

  2 
1   3

is the usual setup for an arcade is would agree

fba would traslate to

3 4 x
1 2 x

plus would be

 1 2 3 
 x x x

the more arcade friendly arcade mapping would be

x 2 x
1 x 3

12
34

there is no issue thet the 1234 patter used in fba is good for gamepads

anyway all people have different preferences

i think

1 2 3

or

x 2 x
1 x 3

is more realistic for me for arcade panels for 3 buttons

the 4 button setup varies in quads or in a row

I am leaving this as is in mame2003 + the user can remap buttons that dont fit there preference. Mame2003 ended up a mess when you tried to force controls on people. The defaults should work for most games as it does in mame mainline.

the use can remap there keys on games if needed im not going to enforce my preferences on them.

Clyde

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

anyway all people have different preferences
x 2 x
1 x 3

Indeed. I tend to map such games to

1 2 3
1 2 3

or in case of Mortal Kombat, which has a single Block button in the middle,

HP BL HK  (High Punch, BLock, High Kick)
LP BL LK  (Low Punch, BLock, Low Kick)

so it won't matter much if I hit the wrong key as long as I hit its correct horizontal position. As a bonus, guests tend to search less often for working keys. ;)

But that's just me, I don't know if I would recommend that as default.

grant2258

@Clyde the problem with mk is it has 5 button as far as i can remember i could be wrong.

i think it was like this in the arcade

o   o
  o
o   o

grant2258

i personally map my 8 button setup like this.

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

this handles neogeo and 6 buttons out of the wrapper.

however it really shoud be

456
1234

it the other way round so sf2 maps right. Ill make some change so it maps

456
123

without changing drivers else it will end up in tears like it did for mame2003

Amplifuzz

I'm having similar issues. I have a 6 button setup, set SNES style. 6 button fighters are mapped correctly, but 3 button games in the upward triangle shape like Altered Beast and Double Dragon are not as I remember them. I checked the manuals and indeed they have punch and kick on the bottom and jump on the top, unlike the Retropie cores. Is there a catch-all setting for that?

grant2258

@Amplifuzz nope there isint a catch all. teh 6 button should is 3 in a row for mame+ I personlly think

or

 2
1x3

is acceptable

34
12

is not acceptable on an arcade panel though for 3 button games

if you want the triangle youll need to map it that way. I would like to update mame at some point so we can change this unfortunately updates would be needed for this and everyone has a different idea of what is best. but i want to add code to swap the rows at some point. Problem is the controls are in a define that makes a structure instead of a structure thats editable. I might change this one day for more felxablity

The standard mame2003+ is set in the 8 button or 6 button for arcades so you know where every button is

Clyde

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!

grant2258

@Clyde said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!

you would think so the code would need updated uses static defined maps. I do agree more flexibility is needed but the original option should remain you map the button the way they are superposed to be.

ie

123
XYL
BAR
456

works for most games if you want to map a game manually for now or swap the buttons you can do it per game not like its impossible at the moment. Some people may prefare this way it is now fair. Forcing auto swaps on people isint a good thing should be optional or you end up with an arcade panel that mapped like a gamepad or the user has no idea where button 3 is when it changes from game to game.

Its easy enough to swap the 123 456 rows for now with ra remaps for now.
The code would need changed to swap this automatically because of teh way its done right now

Clyde

@grant2258 I just thought that a "triangle" option next to "gamepad", "gamepad classic" etc. would be a nice addition to set 3-button games quickly to the triangle mapping. It shouldn't anger people if it's not set as default.

Another way would be to add an additional option that works in accord with the "6 button" preset, setting it either to "normal"

123
456

or "triangle"

426
153

Again, that is only an idea to speed up the setup of 3-button games to a triangle. It's not really important.

grant2258

I do agree with what you are saying its just not do easy to implement in the code atm.

Clyde

@grant2258 Ah, good. I wasn't sure if I did understand you correctly. :)

Clyde

@grant2258 I like the current presets very much, by the way. The "gamepad classic" works for me for my upright cabinet's six buttons in most 1-3 button games perfectly, because I like to have button 1+2 on the lower left, whereas the "6 button" preset makes setting up Street Fighter type games very quick and easy.

grant2258

to be honest mame would be so much easier to setup it we used it natively instead of trying to interface it into RA. FBA doesnt have this issue because is has no internal remapping at all like mame does.

It feels to me at times we are limiting mame due to the way RA controls work and to integrate them into RA. Marks done a good job of meeting half way but RA has no where near the flexibility that mame tab menu has. The problem is if we remap in mame it will mess with the ra side of controls so what do you do just limit it thats all you can do atm

Amplifuzz

Here's my proposal for the "6 button triangle" layout: 3 button games on snes layouts should auto-snap to something like this:

2 2 1
1 3 3

The rationale is that on a lot of arcade cabinets the top and bottom rows are offset from each other, sometimes to the left, other times to the right and this layout accomodates all setups regardless of the slant.

like this:

2__2__1
__1__3__3

or this:

__2__2__1
1__3__3

In fact this setup with the aligned rows

x 2 x
1 x 3

is indeed suboptimal and way different from the arcade experience, because the triangle is way too spaced. Having offset rows with this layout allows for a truer "arcade triangle" vibe. It would also work great on modern ergonomic curved layouts.

What do you guys think?

grant2258

well this is my take on it

aligns close enough to play a game

as far as i know fba is doing a below i could be wrong for 1 - 4 buttons

34
12

grant2258

the problem with the triangle is everyone sets there buttons up differently with spacing ect that why 3 in a row works

personally my buttons are shaped like your fingers for comfort like here

https://github.com/grant2258/mame2003-plus-libretro/blob/master/metadata/wipcontrols/10PANEL.png

grant2258

ive started work on fixing the rows to be

456
123

on the mappings this is something that need to be done for a while and it comes up in every conversation.

Ive updated the diagrams and the actual maps. I just need to fix the sf2 to map like it should to the jamma standard so punches and kicks are in the right rows.

Once this is done ill put a pull request in. I wont be mapping arcade panels like gamepad for 1 to 4 buttons the maps we will have will be like this.

https://github.com/grant2258/mame2003-plus-libretro/tree/input_fix/metadata/wipcontrols

ill give you a shout when this is complete should get it done today hopefully

markwkidd

It seems like my dream of synchronized control layouts between MAME 2003-Plus and FB Alpha was never going to be possible. It was a beautiful dream.

Now that I know it is impossible to have 1:1 symmetry with FB Alpha, I find myself revisiting which of the MAME 2003-Plus layouts should be set as the default. (Grant has been mentioning this in the past but I have been holding onto the impossible dream.)

The RetroPad is an abstraction modeled on the SNES layout and the DualShock layout. Is the current MAME 2003-Plus default layout of "Gamepad" an appropriate choice for a DualShock-style gamepad?

grant2258

@markwkidd nothing major is changing for us in all honesty basically an arcade panel should be like this.

456
123

we mapped

123
456

to get the correct mapping for sf2 all ive done is change the mapping to what it should be and ill update the sf2 to map right to the jamma standard.

This is all transparent to the user the physical mapping is still the same. Its just the rows will match up right when im done.

The good news is out physical mappings are the same as fba.

An arcade panel shouldnt be changing shape like a controller if you want that familiar 4 quad shape pick the the gamepad classic profile for 1 - 4 player games .

if you want an arcade panel use which ever one of the 3 that suits your setup

markwkidd

Thanks, that's helpful and I greatly appreciate the diagrams you've made.

It does seem like "Classic" is a little more suitable to the PSX/SNES type gamepad (ie the RetroPad abstraction), so maybe that should be the default for the core and then folks with arcade controls can use the diagrams to pick their layout.