Nintendo Switch - Whats your view?
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Sorry wrong topic...
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First of all, If you don't feel the same as me that's fine, I'm not here to belittle anyone with a different opinion than myself. Personally I feel the Nintendo Switch is another system built around a gimmick. This is a trend Nintendo started with the Gamecube, where the gimmick was purely aesthetic. This philosophy worked very well for the original Wii with its motion controllers and emphasis on unique play styles, however as we all know, they Wii U was a flop, I believe this was due to a lack of understanding of what the Wii U actually was (because of the similar name and poor marketing) and the fact that casual gaming is now largely in the mobile space. To me the switch doesn't offer much different than the Wii U, it still revolves around a tablet-like device. Furthermore in terms of capabilities it will not be able to come close to the powerhouse PS4 Pro or Xbox One Scorpio, having a beefed up Tegra chip at its core. Because Nintendo has differentiated the Switch from the Wii line, it has its own identity, and therefore I believe it stands a better chance of success than its predecessor. Still I don't think it will be very appealing to the average late teen to adult gamer when options like PS4 and Xbox One exist, and will be favored mainly by very young gamers. In my opinion limiting their demographic in this manner is unwise. They do have better third party support this time around though, so it stands a decent chance if Nintendo plays their cards right. I can say that I will not be purchasing one myself unless Nintendo offers me a very compelling reason to do so, which at this time I just cannot see happening.
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I have funds available to pre-order based on the launch game list. I feel 99% sure that Super Mario 64-ish game will make the cut and I will end up with the Switch on launch.
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@GreenHawk84 If there is a Mario game as awesome as Super Mario 64, or Super Mario Galaxy that would certainly sway me closer to making a purchase. I personally do not like the look of the new Zelda, looks like they are going back to that cell-shaded look I just despised in Windwaker (Especially after seeing the Zelda tech demo on the Gamecube). I liked Twilight Princess, the dark semi-realistic looking graphics and atmosphere. Skyward Sword was also enjoyable, though a little cartoony. Now they are stepping backwards again with the latest incarnation. I'm out, at least as far as Zelda is concerned.
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You mention that you liked the art direction of 'Twilight Princess' and that 'Skyward Sword' was enjoyable despite it's visual style. Was it just the graphics you had a problem with in 'Wind Waker' or was it not any fun to play either? Also, does the game play that is demoed in 'Breath of the Wild' interest you at all?
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@mediamogul The gameplay in Windwaker was adequate, even enjoyable at times, but the visual style really detracted from the experience for me after coming off Ocarina of Time (My personal favorite in the series). I just couldn't take it seriously. Despite the visual issue I still bought it hoping that I would enjoy it half as much as Ocarina, but that was not the case. I did see the game through to completion though, but i've only ever beat it once because thats all the time I cared to invest in it. I thought they went in the right direction with Twilight Princess and as a consequence I could enjoy the game far more than Windwaker. For me the visual style of a game is a big contributor to how immersive it is. These days I prefer games like Skyrim and Witcher 3. To be honest I just looked at a screenshot of Breath of the Wild and that was enough for me.
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@mediamogul Oh and if my earlier statement about enjoying a good Mario game seems contradictory, its because I don't need to take a Mario game seriously to enjoy it. For me Mario is basically pick up, play, and have a good time, lol.
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I'm worried about the tiny controllers pictured. We're hearing it will be more powerful than a PS3 but less powerful than a PS4 despite the fact that the Switch is coming out 4 years later than the PS4.
No disc drive means you can't put in Gamecube, Wii or Wii U disks. No second screen, no touch screen, no 3D, etc. means no backwards compatibility with the huge library of DS/3DS games.
There is no clamshell design so the large screen will get scratched/damaged if you throw it in a bag and try to use it as a portable console.
What they've created looks like a worse handheld than their existing handheld, and as a home console it is a Wii U without the touchscreen and no backwards compatibility.
Everyone talks about how amazing it would be to take this elsewhere for gaming, but for every one of those use cases, wouldn't you want the 3DS and its HUGE library of games instead? It should also be noted that the Wii U gamepad had terrible battery life and the Switch is supposed to be a truly portable version of that?
Who is this really for?
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@enderandrew I agree with your assessment 100%. Nintendo hasn't made cutting edge technology a goal since the Gamecube days, and granted that is only one factor that defines a game console. However developers in general don't like working on limited hardware. Also the design issues with the controller, exposure of the screen to hazards, and battery life are serious concerns. Personally I think this would be a much more appealing product in Japan. I'm not so sure about other markets. I'm not going to blatantly state the system is doomed to fail. It does have more going for it than the Wii U as far as support goes, at least for now, but I honestly don't see the appeal of this system myself. If someone else does, thats fine, all the power to you. But I don't get it.
On the flip side, the original Wii was immensely under-powered when compared with the competition, and I remember developers complaining about this left and right, particularly Factor 5, who called it the "Gamecube 1.5" I believe, because it only had increased RAM and a higher clocked Gamecube chipset essentially. However as we all know it was immensely popular and some of the most innovative titles of that generation come to mind for me such as House of the Dead: Overkill, Silent Hill Shattered Memories (best version in my opinion), MadWorld, Mario Galaxy and others.
To me the outlook for the Switch looks grim with apparent design issues and another concept based on a gimmick which looks good on paper, but may not be so great in practice. Maybe Nintendo will pull a rabbit out of its hat and it will be a huge success outside of Japan. I have been wrong before in discussions such as this, but to me it seems doubtful this time. Time will tell.
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The Wii tons and tons of hardware on the gimmick, but the console didn't have a great life past that. That is part of the reason no one lined up to buy the Wii U.
The other thing is that it looks like you need to carry a bunch of accessories and alternate controllers with you, which kills the whole portable angle.
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A very reasoned and thoughtful reply. I agree with many of your points. And while I don't exactly need to always take the series completely serious myself, I definitely see how it can color opinion to the point of distaste.
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Nintendo needs to give us a system that can compete with xbox ps! Since the gc it's been too gimmicky! I've been a fan since day 1 but have been disappointed lately.
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@space-cadet I'll probably upset some Nintendo fans by saying this, but I think Nintendo may be on the fast track to becoming a software developer like Sega before it. They seem completely unwilling to produce competitive hardware. Their highly successful portable line may save them from Sega's fate, but they're already showing signs of warming up to software development for other platforms now that they are launching games on iOS and Android.
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@drake999 said in Nintendo Switch - Whats your view?:
Their highly successful portable line may save them from Sega's fate
There was a Forbes article a year or two ago that estimated Nintendo could operate without any income at all for over a decade before they started to feel a squeeze, largely in part to their dominance of the industry throughout the 80s and 90s. I think mobile game design is simply Nintendo taking money that until now has been left on the table.
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@mediamogul it's no secret that the only thing Nintendo has going for it at this point is its intellectual property. Hardware is largely irrelevant, and can't really be compared to the likes of the ps4 or Xbox as far as specs are concerned.
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I'm not sure Nintendo's future is so clear at the moment. Nintendo could very well have a few more golden eggs to lay before everything is said and done. However, I do completely agree that hardware comparisons are irrelevant. I'd even go so far to say that they always have been. The NES was technically inferior to the SMS and most others of it's generation. The GameBoy was using a then-fifteen year old Z80 processor and a pea green display when all of it's rivals were far more advanced.
For better or worse, I don't think Nintendo's original mission statement of "lateral thinking with withered technology" has ever changed. Instead, I think that the consumer attitude toward modern gaming has changed. Some have said that Nintendo should follow the modern ideal of raw horsepower and competitive tech specs above all else. However, other legacy institutions have made the mistake of following the current trends only to find that the soul of the company couldn't survive the transition. This almost always leads to the unrecoverable alienation of the loyal customer base that previously sustained them and effectively doubles down on any financial strain. At the heart of all this, I think that the mobile space is just an area of modern gaming tech that Nintendo can explore safely without fear of alienating anyone and make a few dollars while they're at it.
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@mediamogul Game machine hardware has been a heated debate since the "bit wars" of the late 80's through the 90's. Some say it's completely irrelevant. I only partially agree with this. The ultimate factor which defines a game console is the games. Marketing and brand name exposure being a close second. I'm sure those more powerful platforms you mention in comparison to the gameboy would have been more successful if they were more well known and had better support. Every kid in North America knew what Nintendo was when I was that age, but not many knew (including myself for a while) what a Sega Master System was. Nintendo already had a Kung Fu grip on all the best developers and franchises through their controversial policies and that ensured they had the best games. However hardware plays an important part in the minds of many gamers as well as a large number of developers. The gaming industry is obsessed with topping itself and this can be interpreted a number of ways, but usually implies pushing for the best possible results out of the best hardware available. Developers often used the term "watered down" when describing porting a game to inferior hardware, not something a lot of them particularly like doing (but if it promises to be profitable they usually will). So basically having weak hardware can effect third party support negatively. I believe hardware is less relevant today then say 10 years ago, since we are in a bit of a retro and indie revolution right now. I will say for myself personally as someone in IT and also a tech enthusiast, system specs do play a small role in my buying decision for a console, but I mainly buy for the exclusive games. When it's released, I'm throwing my money in with Scorpio.
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@drake999 said in Nintendo Switch - Whats your view?:
I'm sure those more powerful platforms you mention in comparison to the gameboy would have been more successful if they were more well known and had better support.
That of course wouldn't have hurt, but most historical accounts give credit directly to Nintendo's conservative hardware decisions that not only allowed four AA batteries in a time when the competition used six to eight, but also allowed for ten to thirty hours of game play when everything else topped out at three to four.
However hardware plays an important part in the minds of many gamers as well as a large number of developers.
I completely agree, and while I don't think system specs would have any real measurable effect on the mass appeal Nintendo's first party games, it can and almost always does make or break third party involvement, with the very interesting exception you noted of an unavoidably successful system like the Wii was for some time.
I believe hardware is less relevant today then say 10 years ago, since we are in a bit of a retro and indie revolution right now.
I agree with this also. In that line of thought, the quick pick up and play nature of these mobile games and the inexplicably popular themes and play mechanics remind me of what one might find in any random arcade during the early days of the industry when a there were no rules and a video game could be about almost anything.
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I honestly stopped following Nintendo after SNES. Really, probably after the NES since most every SNES game was censored to some degree when the Genesis wasn't. Green blood, really Nintendo? That made me a diehard non-Nintendo fan all the way back then. Super Mario Kart and Zelda A Link to the Past were the SNES's saving graces.
N64 was OK - but Playstation IMO kicked it's ass on so many levels (ok, besides Ocarina of Time...maybe Mario Kart 64 and Goldeneye/Perfect Dark ;) Ever since then, if it's true or not, I feel like Nintendo's graphics were always 1 generation behind Xbox and Playstation. When I get a "next gen" console, I want the best graphics like Xbox One and PS4 has. If the Nintendo Switch even tops Xbox 360 for graphics I'll be surprised.
Plus, I always see Nintendo catering towards younger children (which this commercial definitely looks for them to be trying to turn that demographic around...I guess they finally realized 20-somethings+ are the ones who can afford to buy the most video games). Nothing wrong with that, but as I haven't been a child in decades, it's just not for me if they continue that trend AND have less impressive graphics.
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Who is hype for the Switch presentation?
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