Pi Zero (standard) Overclock freezes in 4.1.14 . But in 4.1.5 is PERFECTLY fine...

Dochartaigh

This is a continuation of my other topic but as it's Overclocking specific I thought a new topic is better.

--3x of each system: Raspberry Pi Zero 1.3
--RetroPie 4.1.14 and 4.1.5. (Two) Anker 2.4 amp power supply + Canakit 2.5 amp.
-- Samsung EVO 16gb SD card (like 6x of them...)
--Built from 0/1 images downloaded from RetroPie site (one from a couple days ago, other from couple months ago). Imaged with ApplePi-Baker.
-- 3x different USB hubs (Amazon, iotech, Smyth with ethernet port). Using 1/2 WiFi dongles, multiple controllers, 2x 2.4ghz wireless Rii keyboard USB dongles.

I've been working on getting my Zero's dialed in with an acceptable speed for SNES so I've been overclocking for the first time. Using the overclocking numbers from the "usually-safe baselines to start" from the GitHub.

EXTENSIVE testing on RetroPie 4.1.14 (I mean like literally 10+ hours by this point, on 3x different Zero's) shows that no matter what the overclock - even if it's 25 over stock numbers (and using voltage 2-4), and every single possible conceivable combination up to (and 25 beyond) the safe-baseline numbers, the system will freeze within ~5-20 minutes most commonly. Again, this was tested on 3 totally different Pi Zero setups, with individually imaged cards (ok, 2 were from scratch, 1 was a imaged clone)

I tried the same exact default overclock settings on RetroPie 4.1.5 and it works perfectly. Talking hours perfectly. Using those SAME EXACT ZERO SETUPS (I even re-used the failed/freezing 4.1.14 SD cards...) – the only single difference was the freezing ones had RetroPie 4.1.14 vs. to working ones having 4.1.5 installed. I literally cloned that one 4.1.5 card and built 2 more (on the same exact SD cards that failed on 4.1.14) and ran them through crazy paces last night for over 2 hours (since I was told one working overclock setting on one Zero's processor may not work on another Zero)....yet not a single Zero on 4.1.5 froze (I even left two on overnight and they were still up this morning).

This just reinforces my belief, with all the problems I've had with anything over RetroPie 4.1.5 (just look at my posting history here...it's pretty crazy), this is just one more nail in the coffin for anything past 4.1.5 just not working like it should on the Zero for some reason which I certainly can't explain. (sorry, don't mean to be harsh, you know I appreciate you all!...but this is just a reinforced over-and-over-again fact for me...).

BuZz

@Dochartaigh There is nothing in RetroPie that would affect this - it would have to be firmware / kernel related or just that your overclock isn't really actually stable, and just gets triggered on the newer version. You should compare kernel versions between the two set-ups.

If you really think it's a bug you can report it to https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware however they will need more specific reproducible details, and not just that a certain version of retropie crashes vs another one. Like narrowing it down to a specific firmware change etc.

BuZz

You should also run some cpu benchmarks/tests on the "stable" system to make sure it really is a stable overclock - it might well only show up under certain loads etc. eg using sysbench. There are a bunch of examples when googling including https://github.com/aikoncwd/rpi-benchmark or doing it manually

Make sure you have sufficient cooling etc.

Dochartaigh

@BuZz
Thank you for the info. I literally know nothing about Kernels (besides how they're an underlying part of an OS), but I can run those benchmark tests and see what they show. I even looked at the changelog commits for RetroPie and didn't find anything that said "kernel" (went back weeks and weeks too). Maybe that's more 'upstream' like they commonly comment about? (which I assume pulls from either the base Linux 'kernel'? or the RetroArch program itself? ...or something to that effect).

All I know is 4.1.5 is stable with the standard overclock, and 4.1.14 isn't! But doesn't look like there's anything I can do (with my level of knowledge) but stay with 4.1.5 - which is fine. Maybe I'll try updating the individual emulators at the very least - I WAS getting better performance (FPS) with 4.1.14 vs. 4.1.5 (but who knows, that could be the kernel and not the emulator itself for all I know).

Anyway, semi-related question: where can I get the native/original Pi 0/1 image for 4.1.5? I've been working off my images of 4.1.5 installs but deleted the original I downloaded off the RetroPie website – and would rather start with a fresh install of 4.1.5 if I'm giving up on 4.1.14 for the moment.

BuZz

@Dochartaigh retropie is not an operating system. on the raspberry pi retropie runs on Raspbian, which is the OS. The firmware is the low level code for the rpi, and the Kernel is the core of Linux - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system)

There is no image of 4.1.5 - there is a 4.1 which you can then update. You can also update retropie but not update the OS parts.

Freezing issues are unrelated to retropie.

You should do the tests as I mentioned, as its likely your overclock is not actually stable, even if you think it is. If you remove the overclock does it freeze ? If not, you have your answer.

Dochartaigh

@BuZz said in Pi Zero (standard) Overclock freezes in 4.1.14 . But in 4.1.5 is PERFECTLY fine...:

You should do the tests as I mentioned, as its likely your overclock is not actually stable, even if you think it is. If you remove the overclock does it freeze ? If not, you have your answer.

I just want to make sure we're on the same page: what I'm saying is in my testing I have 3x individual setups with 3x different Pi Zero's. I ran all of them on both 4.1.14 AND 4.1.5, both overclocked and not-overclocked:

Pi #1, RetroPie 4.1.14, Overclocked - FREEZES
Pi #2, RetroPie 4.1.14, Overclocked - FREEZES
Pi #3, RetroPie 4.1.14, Overclocked - FREEZES

Pi #1, RetroPie 4.1.14, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #2, RetroPie 4.1.14, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #3, RetroPie 4.1.14, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all

Pi #1, RetroPie 4.1.5, Overclocked** - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #2, RetroPie 4.1.5, Overclocked** - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #3, RetroPie 4.1.5, Overclocked** - doesn't freeze at all

Pi #1, RetroPie 4.1.5, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #2, RetroPie 4.1.5, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all
Pi #3, RetroPie 4.1.5, NOT Overclocked - doesn't freeze at all

**This 4.1.5 system is overclocked with the SAME exact settings as 4.1.14 – yet 4.1.14 freezes and 4.1.5 doesn't freeze on the same exact machine, same SD card, same everything. I can repeat the freezing every single time on 3 different individually built systems...

Basically what the above shows to me is something is wrong with the kernel (which you mentioned as a possible culprit) for 4.1.14 which makes ANY overclocking freeze these 3 systems. This fault is not in 4.1.5 (again, from my limited - yet pretty darn extensive testing).

And even if 4.1.5 isn't really stable like you say...all I know is it seems to act normal, doesn't freeze, and gives me better performance; and if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

BuZz

@Dochartaigh You need to test with something like sysbench - You also need to compare kernel versions.

I doubt something is wrong with the firmware/kernel - it's unlikely or more people would be reporting it. It's more likely a change in firmware/kernel (eg some change to cpu scaling, or some firmware change), is triggering the crash because your overclock is not actually stable (even though you think it is).

You need to test with something that maxes out the cpu etc like a sysbench test.

This has nothing to do with "RetroPie-Setup" versions btw - you need to look at the kernel version (uname -a). RetroPie is a separate thing from the OS.

Dochartaigh

I only had time to run two tests on the 4.1.14 setups, and one on the 4.1.5. I hit F4 to exit out of Emulationstation (thought that would be best for the test).

So first things first, the Linux version:

uname -a on the 4.1.14 system says:

Linux retropie 4.4.26+ #915 Thu Oct 20 17:02:14 BST 2016 armv6l GNU/Linux

uname -a on the 4.1.5 system says:

Linux retropie 4.4.34+ #930 Wed Nov 23 15:12:30 GMT 2016 armv6l GNU/Linux

(which doesn't make sense to me because if I'm reading it right the 4.1.14 is dated about a month BEFORE the earlier 4.1.5? - yes I double checked it)

And the AikonCWD benchmark tests:

4.1.14 Pi Zero #1:

Raspberry Pi Benchmark Test
Author: AikonCWD
Version: 3.0

temp=43.3'C
arm_freq=1000
core_freq=500
sdram_freq=500
gpu_freq=500
sd_clock=50.000 MHz

Running InternetSpeed test...
Ping: 41.189 ms
Download: 55.11 Mbits/s
Upload: 11.64 Mbits/s

Running CPU test...
 total time: 140.9210s
 min: 18.51ms
 avg: 56.36ms
 max: 167.58ms
temp=48.2'C

Running THREADS test...
 total time: 187.7533s
 min: 55.33ms
 avg: 75.09ms
 max: 175.15ms
temp=47.6'C

Running MEMORY test...
Operations performed: 3145728 (123569.78 ops/sec)
3072.00 MB transferred (120.67 MB/sec)
 total time: 25.4571s
 min: 0.00ms
 avg: 0.03ms
 max: 79.21ms
temp=47.6'C

Running HDPARM test...
 Timing buffered disk reads:  60 MB in  3.00 seconds =  19.97 MB/sec
temp=46.0'C

Running DD WRITE test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 68.1628 s, 7.9 MB/s
temp=44.4'C

Running DD READ test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 24.8409 s, 21.6 MB/s
temp=43.3'C

AikonCWD's rpi-benchmark completed!

4.1.14, Pi Zero #2

Raspberry Pi Benchmark Test
Author: AikonCWD
Version: 3.0

temp=44.4'C
arm_freq=1000
core_freq=500
sdram_freq=500
gpu_freq=500
sd_clock=50.000 MHz

Running InternetSpeed test...
Ping: 39.223 ms
Download: 52.72 Mbits/s
Upload: 11.70 Mbits/s

Running CPU test...
 total time: 141.0996s
 min: 23.53ms
 avg: 56.41ms
 max: 175.19ms
temp=49.8'C

Running THREADS test...
 total time: 179.6370s
 min: 49.04ms
 avg: 71.85ms
 max: 158.69ms
temp=50.3'C

Running MEMORY test...
Operations performed: 3145728 (124335.28 ops/sec)
3072.00 MB transferred (121.42 MB/sec)
 total time: 25.3004s
 min: 0.00ms
 avg: 0.03ms
 max: 99.41ms
temp=51.4'C

Running HDPARM test...
 Timing buffered disk reads:  62 MB in  3.02 seconds =  20.56 MB/sec
temp=50.3'C

Running DD WRITE test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 61.7905 s, 8.7 MB/s
temp=48.7'C

Running DD READ test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 24.8082 s, 21.6 MB/s
temp=48.7'C

AikonCWD's rpi-benchmark completed!

4.1.5, Pi Zero #2 again (#3 is scraping ROM's right now ;)

And FML.....are the repositories down???? I've tried this like 5 times now...

pi@retropie:~ $ curl -L https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aikoncwd/rpi-benchmark/master/rpi-benchmark.sh | sudo bash
  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
100  2172  100  2172    0     0   7028      0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--  7144
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libmysqlclient18 mysql-common
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libmysqlclient18 mysql-common sysbench
0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 702 kB/758 kB of archives.
After this operation, 3,475 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ jessie/main mysql-common all 5.5.52-0+deb8u1
  404  Not Found [IP: 2001:41c9:1:3ce::11 80]
Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ jessie/main libmysqlclient18 armhf 5.5.52-0+deb8u1
  404  Not Found [IP: 2001:41c9:1:3ce::11 80]
E: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/m/mysql-5.5/mysql-common_5.5.52-0+deb8u1_all.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 2001:41c9:1:3ce::11 80]

E: Failed to fetch http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/m/mysql-5.5/libmysqlclient18_5.5.52-0+deb8u1_armhf.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 2001:41c9:1:3ce::11 80]

E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?

Raspberry Pi Benchmark Test
Author: AikonCWD
Version: 3.0

temp=51.4'C
arm_freq=1000
core_freq=400
sdram_freq=450
gpu_freq=300
sd_clock=50.000 MHz

Running InternetSpeed test...
Ping: 47.37 ms
Download: 31.19 Mbits/s
Upload: 11.36 Mbits/s

Running CPU test...
bash: line 38: sysbench: command not found
temp=51.4'C

Running THREADS test...
bash: line 43: sysbench: command not found
temp=50.8'C

Running MEMORY test...
bash: line 48: sysbench: command not found
temp=51.4'C

Running HDPARM test...
 Timing buffered disk reads:  56 MB in  3.10 seconds =  18.04 MB/sec
temp=51.9'C

Running DD WRITE test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 73.4755 s, 7.3 MB/s
temp=55.1'C

Running DD READ test...
536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 27.6583 s, 19.4 MB/s
temp=55.1'C

AikonCWD's rpi-benchmark completed!