Metadata Improvements in EmulationStation

MWGemini

@fieldofcows I've just re-sent the email, and I'll try to set aside some time to look through your recent code changes and try to put my database design ideas into a diagram to send to you.

fieldofcows

@MWGemini Got your email, thanks. I'll have a good read and get back to you. Thanks!

mattrixk

@Zigurana: You asked for it, here it is.
@fieldofcows: This is for you.
@MWGemini: You might be interested in this too.

I made a design proposal doc with Google Docs, full of ideas about how I think we could make metadata and filtering work a lot better in ES.

It's still a WIP and kind of trails off towards the end, but I'll keep working on it, and people are welcome to leave comments (and if it's wanted, I can open it up to editing).

MWGemini

@mattrixk I also wrote up a design document, and it looks like we've got many of the same ideas. If you and @Zigurana want me to share it with you, send me your email (I can't seem to find a private message option on here... am I blind?). I'd love to get input from theme designers, since my document is focused more on the technical details and usability issues. I'd like to get it polished quite a bit more before sharing it with the rest of the community, but am happy to share it with other interested parties (particularly scraper developers such as @sselph and @screech).

mattrixk

@MWGemini nope, not blind. No message option (I think Buzz turned it off to discourage rom sharing). If love to see your document and give some input.

My doc is currently set to read/comment only, but I can add you, @Zigurana and @fieldofcows as editors. I think @Nismo might even want in on this.

Edit: removed email address.

MWGemini

@mattrixk Just sent you the doc. You might want to remove your email from your post to prevent spam :). I also made a few comments on your doc. I agree with basically everything you wrote, with the exception of database versus XML. Currently, gamelists are stored in XML and I (and @fieldofcows too, I think) want to replace that with a SQL database. It's a big undertaking, but it'll give us a lot more power as users and for you as a theme designer. Functionality wise, I think we're pretty much on the same page.

sselph

@MWGemini I'm happy to read it over. My email address is on my github page.

MWGemini

@sselph Just shared it with you as well :).

mattrixk

@MWGemini said in Metadata Improvements in EmulationStation:

Currently, gamelists are stored in XML and I ... want to replace that with a SQL database.

I don't really have much of a stake in the XML vs DB argument. I'm happy to go with whatever is suggested by the people who know what they are talking about. From what I've gathered, XML is lot easier to edit/add info than a database, but the DB allows faster loading/categorisation of info? Would using DB change how themes are made? Would they still be made in XML?

I was thinking if we went ahead with all of the extra filters/tags and metadata, that we would possibly need some kind of separate program to handle it all, be it web-based or desktop based. I know amadeus has his Retropie Metadata Editor for Windows. I haven't had the chance to look into it, but maybe something like that would be of use.

MWGemini

@mattrixk Two questions there. First, the XML vs DB argument applies only to the game lists. Themes would still be in XML. XML is more human readable, yes, but for doing large and advanced edits, it's really not ideal or easy. From a performance standpoint and from a feature standpoint, a database is the best option for storing data about the games. Themes will continue to work as they currently do.

As for making a separate program to actually create and edit themes, I think that is a great idea, and probably would not be very difficult. That would allow theme designers to visually create and edit themes (or at least see a preview of what the changes would look like), without needing to keep copying it to the Pi and reloading it.

The bigger question is what information do we want to store in the database and make accessible to users, theme designers, etc. I tend to lean in the direction of more data is better, and let individual theme designers and users decide what subset of that data they want to use.

lilbud

That would allow theme designers to visually create and edit themes (or at least see a preview of what the changes would look like), without needing to keep copying it to the Pi and reloading it.

Yes, all of my yes.

mattrixk

@MWGemini said in Metadata Improvements in EmulationStation:

As for making a separate program to actually create and edit themes, I think that is a great idea, and probably would not be very difficult. That would allow theme designers to visually create and edit themes (or at least see a preview of what the changes would look like), without needing to keep copying it to the Pi and reloading it.

I use a portable Windows version of ES that @herb_fargus created a while ago. It works great, but as it's only ES, not RetroPie, and doesn't keep up to date with updates, it's not much use for testing out newer stuff like Video Preview or Grid View.

I've had RetroPie set up on Ubuntu within a virtual machine, but it was so awkward to do anything, took up way too much space (having to set up an entire operating system for a single program is very inefficient) and I just simply dislike Ubuntu (a lot. I had to use it for work for almost a year).

If someone wants to make a hassle-free version of RetroPie that runs on windows (without me having to compile and all that stuff I don't understand) the same way that Herb's portable ES does, then that would be awesome.

Edit
I forgot to say: when I was talking about a program, I meant one that we can use to sort out the metadata and filters, not for theme making, however like I said above, if anyone wants to make a simple portable Windows RetroPie, it would be awesome

herb_fargus

@mattrixk no such thing. Retropie is Linux, windows is windows. You can hack a few batch scripts together to try and replicate it but would be a monumental task and still won't work the same. Would be simpler to just run a live USB with Ubuntu or to dualboot your pc

Closest you could get is libretro emulators and maybe a Windows compilation of the retropie ES but won't have runcommand etc

Nismo

@mattrixk Yes , like @herb_fargus said, a portable retropie for windows it's impossible, but I compiled the latest ES build for windows without too much problems.

Emulationstation is portable itself.

I actually don't have retropie or rpi, I do all my work on windows, but I deleted the latest build, and go back to old fieldofcows fork because has more stuff like nosplashscreen and other things.

Of course i'll try to build the latest ES for windows with all the new metadata improvements and all the new stuff (when released), so I can upload a compiled version for themers or people that want to test without sacrifice their rpi builds.

mattrixk

@herb_fargus, @Nismo: Thanks for the info guys. Thinking about it, I guess I don't really need a Windows copy of RetroPie, considering all of these changes are being made to EmulationStation. So all I really need is a Windows version of ES that has the new stuff in it.

I mentioned before I'm using Herb's portable ES... I downloaded it and then ripped out all the Retroarch stuff. It can't be used for games anymore, but it's also 100MB or so smaller and doesn't have the millions of small Retroarch files to get in the way if I need to move it to another folder or something.

Of course i'll try to build the latest ES for windows with all the new metadata improvements and all the new stuff (when released), so I can upload a compiled version for themers or people that want to test without sacrifice their rpi builds.

That would be awesome, thanks @Nismo.

Nismo

@mattrixk There's a windows version with video support if you want to download it.

https://github.com/fieldofcows/EmulationStation/releases/tag/v0.1-beta.7

I hope this helps.

mattrixk

Hmm... 10 minutes before I leave work... do I have time... bugger it, yeah I've got time. Cheers @Nismo, I'll check it out.

mattrixk

Oh, I need to set up the config file. Maybe I'll have some time over the weekend, because I am outta here! Home time makes me happy. Happy Friday arvo everyone!

MWGemini

@mattrixk @Nismo @fieldofcows If there's enough interest, I can try to set up automated builds through Travis-CI (https://travis-ci.org/) or something similar. I'm a big fan of automating menial tasks, good test coverage, and continuous integration :).

Nismo

@MWGemini Would be nice, thank you very much. Anyway I need to try to compile it by myself because I translate ES to my native language.