Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie

mediamogul

@rpieguy said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Intellivision Yogi's Frustration, Adventures of Tron, and Choplifter are neither modern or freeware and the links are not legal sources.

They're now removed.

@matchaman

They host ROMsets via a legal loophole (out of print data preservation).

The loophole you're referring to is exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is a United States copyright law. As such, the exemption doesn't extend past the US. Advocating the site's use in an international venue such as this forum could conceivably borrow trouble we don't want.

dankcushions

@matchaman the legal loophole is US law only. plus, like you say i think the legal implications for (US) users of said archived software aren't entirely clear.

my suspicion is that this will be shutdown at some point, as soon as some product that uses those roms becomes widespread, creating enough noise.

markwkidd

@rpieguy said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd Intellivision Yogi's Frustration, Adventures of Tron, and Choplifter are neither modern or freeware and the links are not legal sources. Yogi's Frustration and Adventures of Tron were programmed for Mattel Electronics in the early 1980s. Today they belong to Intellivision Productions. Choplifter was programmed in 1989/90 for INTV Corporation and either belongs to Intellivision Productions or the developer Realtime Associates.

You can find sources for Intellivision rom downloads here. https://www.reddit.com/r/intellivision/comments/5nlhvg/download_intellivision_homebrews_rom_files/

I think you are mistaken. Those titles are modern freeware.

Intellivision Production has reissued some titles that were homebrews as well as ones that were either never released or are out of print. Some titles you have to buy from them, but many they give away.

You can download Yogi's Frustration, for example, directly from their site. Look towards the bottom of the page, next to where it reads "Play it on your computer! Download the ROM and use the Nostalgia or jzIntv emulator to enjoy an original 80's game again.": [Removed pending further investigation]

Same with Choplifter: [Removed pending further investigation]

@mediamogul I think you were a bit quick to edit those links out! Of course I may have made a mistake here or there when I made that list, but I was being careful not to include any bootleg links.

If there are are other of my ROM links that people have questions about, please let me know and I'll either demonstrate their provenance or stop sharing them as freeware.

edit: I forgot Adventures of Tron. Here is the official freeware download page -
[Removed pending further investigation]

markwkidd

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@matchaman the legal loophole is US law only. plus, like you say i think the legal implications for (US) users of said archived software aren't entirely clear.

It's not a loophole -- it's a deliberate and structured part of US copyright law. Per the DMCA the Librarian of Congress has consistently certified the exemption for software relying on obsolete hardware every three years since I believe 2006.

There's quite a bit written about this including its legal implications. Anyway.

herb_fargus

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Per the DMCA the Librarian of Congress has consistently certified the exemption for software relying on obsolete hardware

The exemption was only ever intended for the organisation, I don't imagine they are too happy with it being used for download and distribution. I don't think it will last.

markwkidd

@herb_fargus said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Per the DMCA the Librarian of Congress has consistently certified the exemption for software relying on obsolete hardware

The exemption was only ever intended for the organisation, I don't imagine they are too happy with it being used for download and distribution. I don't think it will last.

Where does that information come from? I've read many of the proceedings from that rulemaking and I'm not sure what you mean.

The Internet Archive was deeply involved in getting the original exception and in maintaining it. They filed one of the original briefs, and during the first rulemaking with the Librarian of Congress they answered follow up questions in writing as part of the record of archive.org's intended use.

mediamogul

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@mediamogul I think you were a bit quick to edit those links out!

I checked them out before I removed them and they both appear to be intended retail releases that also contain trademarked characters owned by notoriously litigious companies. They may indeed be legally clear in some strange way, but it's always best to err on the side of caution for these things.

markwkidd

@mediamogul said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@mediamogul I think you were a bit quick to edit those links out!

I checked them out before I removed them and they both appear to be retail releases that also contain trademarked characters owned by notoriously litigious companies. They may indeed be legally clear in some strange way, but it's always best to err on the side of caution for these things.

These guys are the license holders. http://intellivision.us/intvgames/history.php

It's surprising to me how much resistance I feel I'm getting to posting links to freeware. Seriously -- this company is doing exactly what so many people are always saying IP owners should do by giving away ROMs of its back catalog.

FUD about intellectual property is intense here lately.

rpieguy

@markwkidd Buying prototype cartridges does not make you copyright owners.

Edit: I think it's good that they are making these lost games available. The reason Intellivision Productions has not is because they couldn't afford the additional rights from Disney and Warner. In the case of Choplifter getting the additional rights from Dan Gorlin or Broderbund might be more of a possibility. The other problem with that posted rom source is they are not only posting Intellivision roms for download but they are selling roms based on copyrighted code that they don't have permission to distribute.

You can find the history of Intellivision Yogi's Frustration, Adventures of Tron, and Choplifter here.
http://www.intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits2.shtml

mediamogul

@markwkidd

It's surprising to me how much resistance I feel I'm getting to posting links to freeware.

It's of course nothing personal. Surely you can agree that it's worth looking into a little deeper. I understand this is something you feel strongly about, but you're gambling with someone else's money to risk the health and reputation of RetroPie over a few ROMs. Would Disney or Time Warner come after us? Probably not, but why tempt fate.

rpieguy

@jonnykesh That website 's coleco vision homebrew page does have some coleco vision freeware. It also has some roms that are ported code from commercially released games, from other systems with similar hardware. They include code from games originally released on the sega sg-1000, msx computers, and some arcade games based on the z80 cpu. There's also a few hacks of old coleco vision cartridge roms.

mediamogul

Before I start removing any more links, I'd like @BuZz to weigh in on this. Situations like these are exactly why this thread has made me nervous from the beginning.

rpieguy

@fruitybit said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd Very good list, I've been looking for a decent version of Pong for so long! However, when I download it, it has no suffix or file type. I tried calling it .int and .bin, and dropped all three into the pi but none will work with jzintv. I want to put Freeintv on but don't have the wherewithall to achieve that yet!

Hmm, I tried DK arcade and can’t get that working either, all my other Intellivision roms work fine, all bios sums are correct. Are these working on the pi for anyone else?

The DK Arcade download is a rar archive. Use something like 7-zip to extract the .bin, .cfg, and .rom files.

The ultimate pong download is an intellicart .rom format file. Rename the file with a .rom extension.

They should work with the jzintv that comes with Retropie. Ms pacman needs a relatively upto date jzintv version. Not sure what Retropie is packed with but you can find the latest build of jzintv here. http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/

BuZz

@mediamogul if there is any doubt of the content of a page, I would err on the side of caution and remove the links. Cheers!

dankcushions

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@matchaman the legal loophole is US law only. plus, like you say i think the legal implications for (US) users of said archived software aren't entirely clear.

It's not a loophole -- it's a deliberate and structured part of US copyright law. Per the DMCA the Librarian of Congress has consistently certified the exemption for software relying on obsolete hardware every three years since I believe 2006.

There's quite a bit written about this including its legal implications. Anyway.

IANAL but the part of the law i see on pages like this covers the archival and bypassing of copyright protection, not the distribution of said content to non-archivists. beyond that all i see is enthusiasts like us trying to work out what it does/doesn't mean, as this scene is wont to do.

in any case, the DMCA does not cover the world, right?

hooperre

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@matchaman the legal loophole is US law only. plus, like you say i think the legal implications for (US) users of said archived software aren't entirely clear.

It's not a loophole -- it's a deliberate and structured part of US copyright law. Per the DMCA the Librarian of Congress has consistently certified the exemption for software relying on obsolete hardware every three years since I believe 2006.

There's quite a bit written about this including its legal implications. Anyway.

IANAL but the part of the law i see on pages like this covers the archival and bypassing of copyright protection, not the distribution of said content to non-archivists. beyond that all i see is enthusiasts like us trying to work out what it does/doesn't mean, as this scene is wont to do.

in any case, the DMCA does not cover the world, right?

This is really interesting stuff, honestly. From the US Copyright Office:

Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access.

Certainly seems like it would cover ROMs for systems embedded in RetroPie, but it's so poorly defined who really knows? Seems strange that, if given an exemption from DMCA, that the Internet Archive would take it and run with it and distribute things without consent from Congress and without a clear understanding of their exemption. Seems like someone getting out of jail and going to the bank next door and robbing it. Hard part was already done! Also, having that exemption would likely mean that Congress is well aware of their comings and goings and that there have likely been no complaints filed against them as they would likely be sensitive to any complaints they received. Again, like @dankcushions said, we're all left just grasping at straws though.

Fruitybit

@rpieguy Thanks, got it going now. The trick was to add .rom to the es_system.cfg file:)

markwkidd

@hooperre said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Certainly seems like it would cover ROMs for systems embedded in RetroPie, but it's so poorly defined who really knows? Seems strange that, if given an exemption from DMCA, that the Internet Archive would take it and run with it and distribute things without consent from Congress and a clear understanding of their exemption. Seems like someone getting out of jail and going to the bank next door and robbing it. Hard part was already done! Also, having that exemption would likely mean that Congress is well aware of their comings and goings and that there have likely been no complaints filed against them as they would likely be sensitive to any complaints they received. Again, like @dankcushions said, we're all left just grasping at straws though.

Thanks! This sounds exactly like the exception that the Internet Archive worked on.

If this topic seems interesting to other people I'll dig up links to the original filings.

While there are ample primary sources about the archive.org DMCA exception there is little informed discussion of it online that I have ever found online.

Maybe that should be another thread, but -- without posting any links to ROMs of course -- I'd be glad to talk about it.

I've been informally approached to put together a presentation on intellectual property and emulation for game development conferences. At this point I'm not planning to do so, but this is a topic that has a lot of cultural significance as well as technology significance. Maybe someone else should put together a presentation! :)

Anyway, if someone starts that thread, I'll gladly join in.

mediamogul

On the subject of the games themselves, I downloaded and played 'Ultimate PONG', 'Donkey Kong Arcade' and 'Yogi's Frustration'. 'Ultimate PONG' is very straight-forward and a PONG package that's hard to beat. I thought I'd miss the analog control found in Atari's own 'Video Olympics'/'PONG Sports', but it feels like everything was tailored to the digital controls for this and it plays very smoothly as a result.

'Donkey Kong Arcade' is very impressive. We've all heard the rumors that Coleco intentionally sabotaged their own version of 'Donkey Kong' for the Intellivision in an effort to sell more Colecovisions. I've never been fully convinced of that, but this version does prove that they certainly didn't give it their all, regardless of their motives. 'Donkey Kong Arcade' looks and plays beautifully and captures the one quality you should look for in any DK port, the inability to put it down.

'Yogi's Frustration' apparently started off it's life as a loose adaptation of the Charlie Chaplin film 'Modern Times', one of the first films to have synchronized sound. It's a great commentary on the dehumanizing effect technology can have on mankind, yet still manages to be one of his funniest films. The fact that the Tramp says absolutely nothing in his first "talkie" alone makes me laugh. 'Yogi's Frustration' would have been the second video game adaptation of a silent movie, alongside Activision's 'Keystone Kapers' which was based on the short film series, 'Keystone Cops'. Mattel decided to attach Yogi and Booboo to sell more copies and after the game tested poorly, it was discovered that while the game play itself was well received, it was actually Yogi and Booboo who were testing poorly. This particular game is so unique, I feel like I need more time with it than what I was able to spend today. However, I can say that I do enjoy playing it and that already passes a base-level requirement that all too many games haven't.

xFlesk

i think this is a right thread ;)
here you have a great free new game for NES (english and polish language)

http://www.mteegfx.com/grunio

cheers